Dafran suspended from Selfless

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penda

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-Brad

?????

#2

Admirable

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with love from Bradford Rajani

#3

Viper

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good riddance!

#4

victococoblazin

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There goes that good seeding for nothing FeelsBadMan

#5

Alisu

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I heard on Calvins stream that he told him to stop on day 1. i guess this is what you get for being stupid

#6

KuroiRyuu9625

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He added this from a response to Dafran's tweet:

"I've since learned there's more going on with Dafran's personal life that he has been hiding from others, including his teammates. This doesn't excuse his actions, but likely it accelerated his destructive mindset. We will do our best to provide the resources to help him deal.
That said, punitive actions for Dafran are incoming; more details to come later today."

As he mentioned it doesn't excuse his actions and his punishment obviously stands, but I hope he actually does get the help he needs to deal with whatever is happening in his life.

#7

Mithrandir

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From throwing games back to throwing burgers! 4Head

#8

nyxi

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tfw the ow reddits fuck your team over xd

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Hudsen

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This is obviously a monumental loss for Selfless with Contenders Season Zero only a week away. Dafran has been a huge part of their success as half of the superstar DPS combo with Sinatraa where he played a key role, defining their unique playstyle that many teams would go on to emulate. It may be an impossible task to find somebody with the same prowess and synergy to fill such big boots in such a short period of time. Current speculation places iddqd in the mix, as he has been spotted filling in for them in scrims and NRG failed to qualify for Contenders

I wonder if iddqd is just filling for contenders or if he ends up being Dafran's replacement

#10

Tomu

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Does Selfless have the money to buy out IDDQD is the bigger question. I think not. If NRG are to want to continue, instead if building around Seagull and having shit hit the fan afterwards, they build a team around IDDQD they would probably see more success.

But a man can dream.

#12

Hudsen

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Honestly I think that Mendo might be their best bet if they want to get someone that could possibly fill Seagull's shoes

Speaking of which, he is apparently moving to LA PogChamp
https://twitter.com/Mendokusaii/status/871939185317478400

#15

bweesh

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They aren't a really big org and supposedly they were trying to help the team find a better/bigger org to sign to (probably not anymore) but no, I don't think they'd have the funds for IDDQD

#11

samiface

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i didn't think it was possible to like reddit less until today.

#34

BigBad

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This has nothing to do with Reddit and everything to do with Dafran's behavior.

#36

spiderlily

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people like to blame reddit for everything instead of acknowledging their own shortcomings

#41

cmd_

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Beware the reddit brigade of social justice

#13

Guinea

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Of course the curiosity in me wants to know what his personal problems are, but the practical side of me knows its none of my business. Hopefully nothing too serious

#14

CanidaeOK

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Calvin for selfless? bigger hero pool than iddqd imo

#16

penda

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Ryu generally isn't about keeping lineups for a long time, he normally invests in players when they're not well known and gives them the resources to help then develop then sells them to big orgs/teams for big money. I doubt selfless could buy into OWL so it's likely he sells some players or the roster to a bigger org.
Although maybe selfless wants to keep this roster and see where it goes, either way i doubt they can get iddqd

#17

Guinea

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Well I think its more of the players getting approached by other orgs, I think Ryu would like to keep his players for as long as he can and avoid becoming a "farm team" which unfortunately was the case in CS. As for OWL, doesn't the winner of contender get a spot in OWL? I think thats probably what hes hoping for rn.

#18

penda

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I don't think the winner of contenders league gets a spot in OWL, I can't find anywhere that says that. Honestly I don't think selfless would ever really becoming a pure farm team like the selfless CS team was but I could see some players getting poached.

#21

Guinea

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I thought for sure it did. I think #20 might be right in saying that its a spot in season 1

#20

KuroiRyuu9625

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The top 6 NA and top 8 EU get a spot in contenders season 1, nothing to do with OWL atm.

#19

volteczero

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it's a long time coming, he deserved it.

#22

Mewpers

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I will miss his ridiculously good tournament play. :[

#23

woodk1d

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retard like most of overwatch's casual players

#24

Garth_Nelson

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Whoever takes Dafrans spot has huge shoes to fill.
Wouldn't be surprised if selfless try to find a korean

#25

famikins

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Deserved and surprised it took so long for the right people to notice. The guy is actually toxic, and I hate using that word. Hopefully he grows up from this.

#26

Loco

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Don't think Selfless will get Iddqd, but maybe NRG will buy the remainder of Selfless

#27

paolodicanio

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hes human hes young he wants to have fun why the fuck would they suspend their best players for this haha .
5-10 years ago i remember pro players drinking beer after and sometimes even during their match this modern esport is actually not even fun anymore .

#38

KuroiRyuu9625

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That is no reason to break rules, you can't justify this with "well people used to do worst things". Brand perception is important and so is respect for others. The right decision was made here.

#42

Triangleman

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He's 23, I believe, so he is an adult now and should act like one. He behaved badly and threw games for his own entertainment. Yeah, super fun dude. I'm sure the players who were trying their best on competitive he was playing with felt the "fun" too.

#28

gioventu

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this is kinda the end of selfless being a top NA team then i guess .
he and sinatraa synced so good i dont think they will find anything that can fill his shoes .

#29

dralzheimer

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what a fail =O

#30

maxt3r

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I'm just sad that we won't see a possibly epic Dafran meltdown on a LAN.

#31

Critias

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Why would Selfless go for IDDQD? They could pick up Talespin himself.

#32

Garth_Nelson

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I could also see selfless signing Talespin or Coolmatt

#33

Triangleman

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You can't defend his actions and you can't go "LUL REDDIT" over this. He acted like a shithead and got penalized for it. Still, whatever his problems are, I wish he gets better.

Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to do something about it.

#35

Angry_rock

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I get blizzard not allowing him to participate in the tournament because of this but kicking him out of the team? really?
By the same logic of "he ruined the mm games for people" shouldn't every pro player that has a smurf account at a low rank be thrown out of their team because ruining games by throwing isn't much different to ruining games by destroying newbies.

#39

KuroiRyuu9625

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He can't play at any tournaments for at least 3 months on top of being banned from Contenders 0 and 1. From what I can understand in the post he's suspended but the haven't given up on him if he does end up coming back after his Blizz ban is over. Oh, and while smurfing if frowned upon Blizz themselves don't see it as a problem, but openly trolling and grieffing is. That and inciting others to troll etc...

The correct actions were taken, albeit a bit later than I hoped they would.

#43

Angry_rock

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Correct action is removing a guy from his job and not allowing him to work anywhere else for 3 months for trolling in matchmaking games? How do you even justify a punishment like that for ruining games that are completely pointless in the end. Let me put it in a different way would it be ok for a boss to fire a lets say cashier because he was being a cunt to other players and was throwing the ball to his net when he played his last bbal game which is completely unrelated to his job?

#44

Triangleman

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I'd liken it more to a cashier who isn't on his shift walking to the grocery store and badmouthing the customers and throwing stuff on the floor.

#49

Hudsen

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As a pro player it's expected of him to set the standard. He knew what he was getting into and he should not be surprised that there were going to be repercussions. Also the analogy that you made doesn't make any sense because Dafran is being punished (by Blizzard) for what he did in game, not necessarily out of game. Out of game or on stream is more or less up to Selfless to how they want to handle it.

As this was really the first time that something of this matter has happened in overwatch I can understand Blizzard really trying to put their foot down and showing that this very young game that is being pushed forward should be taken seriously.

#37

victococoblazin

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With dafran gone,no NA team can even come close to Rogue FeelsBadMan

#40

Iots

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Hopefully this immature shitter is good enough example for the rest of the competitive community to grow the fuck up.

Keep in mind this is not permanent, and in the long run he would be able to play later this year if he chooses to.

#45

Sideshow

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If you want an analogy, this is more like Ronaldo hosting a TV show where he plays some casual football with some mixed amateur teams at the park. He then refuses to play, acts like a dick, and wanders around playing Pokémon Go instead on the field, losing the matches for all his teams and fans.

Sure there would be penalties required, especially if he made it more likely for others to fuck around and you want to try and make an example of him, but I doubt FIFA would find it reasonable to ban him from all football for 3 months. It's a crazily large punishment that will hopefully never have to be repeated again. I hope it works as a deterrent due to its disproportionate impact.

#56

Piet

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Are you seriously defending him ?
He was asking for this ban and it's fully deserved.
When you join any competitive game of Overwatch, you agree with Blizzard rules (no harassing, cheating, throwing).
Dafran being a pro gamer and a streamer, it's even more obvious that those rules should be respected.
It's not about competitive being pointless or not. He's a public figure, he's making money from his team, tournaments he plays and Twitch viewers. Throwing live on stream and asking his viewer to do so is not only wasting time for 11 other players every match, it is basically saying "f*ck you" to his mates, his team, the team sponsors and Blizzard who's investing money in tournaments he plays.

Your analogy make no sense. I should not have to explain this to someone writing about pro scene and casting...
You probably know it, but Riot has been banning pro from tournament for toxic behavior in solo Q. Blizzard reaction is fair and a season ban isn't that harsh.

#59

KuroiRyuu9625

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I think the driving force here is the fact that Overwatch is very young and needs exposure. I'm assuming that they need to be hard on issues when they pop up to make sure investors are kept happy along with the player base.

He broke one of their rules as a professional representative of the game and while being banned from competitive would have been a suitable punishment they saw it necessary to show that they won't tolerate this kind of behavior. He's just an easy scapegoat being so known and also having streamed his, at the time, lack of common sense.

Another issue might be how long this had been going on for and I can't vouch for the validity of one posted discord conversation but we're talking a couple of months.

I'm in no way defending him because realistically you just can't have your star players telling their audience to go and make the game miserable for others just for fun.

#75

Citric

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I don't think that's an accurate representation of the situation.

FIFA has implemented a football game-finding system which virtually all football players use worldwide. It gives players a skill rating based on their record and their performances. It has terms of use that all players must agree to in order to participate. Ronaldo broadcasts his games and for two days, throws every match (violating the terms) while encouraging all his viewers to do the same. Given that this fictional system is absolutely core to how this fictional FIFA runs football, they ban him from both using the system and from competing in FIFA-sanctioned tournaments for 3 months.

#76

Sideshow

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Your post is undoubtedly more accurate but it literally defeats the point of using an analogy because you've just removed all the known context from FIFA & football and just substituted terms. That's not an analogy and doesn't help people understand how this punishment would work elsewhere.

Plus any argument about defying terms of service has no place in this discussion as that was clearly not the primary factor relating to size of punishment - otherwise many others who defy the TOS (of which many pros do many minor things on stream including throwing with friends) would get similar levels of punitive measures. It was far more about his attitude, trying to persuade others to do the same, stature in the community, and the bad PR it gives the game overall.

To respond to somebody earlier in the thread as well who was shocked I would "defend" him and they had to "explain" to somebody involved in top OW, it's quite obvious that he required dealing with. Much as one might question a 10 year jail sentence given to a thug who committed assault, you can debate the sentence without defending his actions. These kind of punishments are not codified and are open to opinion and interpretation (again, ANALOGY).

Clearly many believe that the size of this punishment was deserved. I think it ranges on the high side and will be ineffective as a deterrent to the overall community of throwers as they are nowhere near as high profile. For other pros though, this sends a clear message that large-scale fucking about will not be tolerated. It'll also hopefully send a wake-up call to dafran to get his shit together. Unfortunately slams Selfless' OWC chances into the dust in all likelihood, but one could argue the org should have done more to get on top of the situation earlier perhaps. Hard to tell with such a bull-headed guy.

#80

Citric

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I see where you're coming from, in that it's not really a useful analogy, I definitely agree. But I think that that is better than a misleading analogy- one that I think misrepresented the situation because this was a public figure actively damaging a core feature of blizzard's product.

My opinion is somewhat irrelevant to that topic, but I do think it's excessively harsh that the ban extends to the next season of Contenders.

#46

Hellafine

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#newDafran when?

#47

bodyshottingwidow

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Do i smell a page 2? monkaS

#48

moon2pharah

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Not yet, but soonTM.

#50

Bantha

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SOON LUL

#51

Taichi

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he said it hisself - he does not give a shit what happens about his carrer.

so stopp making excuses for his childish behaviour.

Edit: PAGE 2 HYPE

#55

KuroiRyuu9625

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Giving insight into why he may have displayed behavior isn't making excuses. That was made clear when Brad mentioned it himself.

I think the message was that he's not a horrible person (I can't judge or assess since I don't know him), but probably a person that's going through some rough time. Still doesn't excuse the way he chose to cope but again, that's already been acknowledged.

What's important is that

He got punished for his actions
He's getting help to deal with what ever is going on.

#52

gioventu

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he still had more impact than 90% of his team mates as dps lucio LUL

#54

KuroiRyuu9625

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This isn't twitch chat. You could just try and remain constructive in your argument, or at the very least, relevant to the actual subject at hand.

#53

victococoblazin

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Atleast dafran will have a page 2 comment thread made about him in his legacy FeelsGoodMan

#57

One_Punch_Man

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punishment doesn't fit the crime.
#freedafran

#64

roadtodumpster

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it never fits, its just our system .

#58

Babouh

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Also twitch chat loved it, i watched some of his drunk stream (it was painful) and some guy in the chat said "I've never been so entertained watching twitch"

If he didn't get punished, other people would realize they could make money by being a douche on stream and throwing games. I'm glad both Selfless and Blizzard reacted accordingly

#65

bodyshottingwidow

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tbh though, streamers already know that acting toxic/like an ass gets views. This is why sodapoppin hates "old soda"

#60

Angry_rock

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[It's not about competitive being pointless or not. He's a public figure, he's making money from his team, tournaments he plays and Twitch viewers]
So because he is a public figure and makes money he should be punished more than other people?

[it is basically saying "f*ck you" to his mates, his team, the team sponsors and Blizzard who's investing money in tournaments he plays.]
I agree that he is saying fuck you to blizzard and the other players in the game but how is it a fuck you to his sponsors, once again he is throwing matchmaking games, not pro games.

[You probably know it, but Riot has been banning pro from tournament for toxic behavior in solo Q. Blizzard reaction is fair and a season ban isn't that harsh.]
Are you seriously taking riot as an example? The company that didn't want to implement sandbox mode due to "toxicity" and do you seriously believe that someones career should be taken away from them due to them talking smack to other players in a game where you can just mute people? I'm getting a bit offtopic but that's what riot has done. Also I agree that he should be banned for a season from matchmaking and the team should be able do demand an apology from him but kicking him out of the team and banning him from playing in any tournaments for 3 months is still way too harsh in my opinion.

#63

KuroiRyuu9625

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I think you're not seeing the bigger picture from the perspective of Blizzard. Yes it's because he's a public figure, because he represents the face of the game for so many people and that he's a role model just as many.

Not only was he displaying immature behavior but he was also inciting others to do the same. That's leeway you just don't have as a professional. Because he's getting paid to play this game he HAS to display more maturity than random Joe next door.

In my opinion just being suspended from comp and season 0 would have been enough but they wanted to send a clear message. Regardless of whether we think it's fair or not because they absolutely can't have this be propagated and seen as acceptable.

I doubt they will do this but it;s always easier to reduce a sentence then to increase it after it's been given. But something like this needed to be done.

Again, the game is young and so are all the pros. Mistakes will be made, lots of learning needs to happen in the scene right now, lots of maturity needs to be developed at the top level.

#66

Hudsen

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As far as I'm aware this case is setting precedence for punishing bad behavior. Any sort of leeway given will be seen as a failure by Blizzard to properly run their own game, and as a company it is essential that the general public and playerbase of your game do not see you in that light.

It's a "fuck you" to his sponsors in how he's expected to act. As mentioned before, as a pro player you're expected to set the standard. And how he acted makes his sponsor look very bad, regardless if it was a matchmaking game or not.

Also didn't Dafran get picked up by Selfless by being highly ranked on the EU ladder? Or am I mistaking him for someone else? If that's the case, then it's even more ironic that the way that he got into the pro scene is how he got suspended from the pro team that picked him up.

#61

SuperKarti

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Most people are missing the point here.

This was not a random troll throwing games. The Issue is that Dafran was a Professional Player playing for a Team that qualified for Overwatch Contenders, so far the closest thing to OverwatchLeague we've seen so far.

In his Position he was basicly a representation of the whole Competetive Overwatch Scene, his Team and to some extend Overwatch League aswell - and specially after the exposure in Contenders somebody people look up to. He then (ab)used this Position to undermine the very nature of the competetive gamemode, ruining games for at least 5 other people every match, and encouraging his followers to do the same - influencing a lot of (potentially younger) players.

Considering how careful Blizzard has been to "get OWL right", there is no way that Blizzard would let this type of behaviour represent their Game, Brand, League and community .

After all, Blizzard, Selfless and Dafran can be Lucky that OWL isnt a thing yet and (mainstream) Media doesnt care for this yet - but as recent history with other "internet people" like PewDiePie show is that media loves this kind of Drama.

If you want to be a player in OWL you should be clear about the fact that a lof of eyes will be watching every move you do. And if you cant handle this, this is the wrong Job for you and you should keep this being a hobby rather than a profession.

#62

thaaad

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All these comments about the punishment being too harsh from Blizzard... according to their TOS they could just outright ban his account. I'd say he got off easy from Blizzard with just the temp ban after how many games he threw and how many other people he impacted with his negative behaviour.

As far as being removed from the Selfless roster, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some kind of "public image" or "relations" clause of some type in their contracts. None of this seems unjustified to me.

#67

victococoblazin

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Banned for the whole s5 of comp is a FeelsBadMan time for dafran to throw arcade games FeelsBadMan

#68

Clickbait

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harley is a hacker that openly aimbots in grandmaster, and has been doing it for months: zero punishment
dafran threw games on his smurf for 2 days: has his career ruined

nice justice system blizzard

#70

twerp

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"what is a ban wave"

#69

penda

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His career isn't ruined at all wut. Blizzard just followed its protocol for a case like this plus the fact that he was streaming it to thousands of viewers as a top pro player makes it worse.

#71

iNaisu

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At the end of the day, Dafran had no right to outcry by throwing, encouraging others to throw/grief matches, calling this "Isis Overwatch", and cursing out on Twitter. Overwatch is a young game of which Blizzard is hoping to make it huge in the eSports scene and had to take disciplinary actions against him. His talent is insane and surely cost his team a good chance to win Contenders Zero and maybe 1. Yes, he's toxic but he's still a good player that I hope finds the much needed help.

#73

roadtodumpster

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with the current viewership counts this game is already dead when it comes to esport.
but yet its a blizzard game and they will do anything to keep it alive atleast inside the community .

#72

Aznable

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2 pages in and all i have to say was dafran's stream was pretty funny and im 12 btw hehe xd

#74

ahren

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oh no
I hope he gets his stuff sorted out.

#77

SenseiSoBased

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Can we get an article on teams that need players and a list of best free agents currently. Graceful, mendo, seagull, xretzi etc

#78

accountseverywhere

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lol ive intentionally torb thrown like 10 games in a row before and nothing happened.

they just need to have a "don't mm with this guy" option or a shadow pool for players with insanely low contribution

#79

Lancecnal

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Man, that was fun.

#81

Sideshow

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Sure, I'll agree there that it didn't capture the PR damage to one of Blizzard's core components.