Seagull to Envyus?

#1

Winter

This one is pure speculation, but I also feel like with the 12 teams in the OWL, Envy is the most likely destination for him. He's pretty much said that he's definitely going to be playing for a team in the OWL, and that it should be announced within 2-3 weeks, whilst Envy's owner has also come out and stated the they're going to be adding players to the roster in the near future. With how highly Taimou seems to rate him and how often they're communicating with each other, along with Envy not having a stand out projectile player, I figured this might be a logical move for the team. Granted he most likely won't be on the starting roster, which could just make everything I'm saying irrelevant if he's wanting to be on a starting team, but if not I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.

Anyone got any thoughts about it?

#59

kerr

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You sir are Nostradamus

#2

darkcvc

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Would be interesting to say the least. A lot of these speculations hinge on whether players would be OK not starting. Also whether an org wants to invest big $$ on backups, since Seagull would probably be a large $$ contract.

#3

LaurenceR

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Is it confirmed he won't be back on NRGss roster? Seagull and Sinatraa is a scary dps combo, and he already has ties with the org

#5

darkcvc

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All the existing contracts are not OWL contracts. Blizzard has their own contract requirements and I am sure all the players would have to re-sign for OWL based on that. But there is also probably some sort of buy-out to take an existing player even if they are under contract with a non-OWL team. I would say its safe to say, especially with a guy like Seagull, money talks and if some team wants him bad enough they could get him from NRG.

#9

Involv3r

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If there's a buy out option for Seagull, it's gonna be really high. I doubt that NRG will give him away to another team. His contract is not OWL bound but he's still under contract with them. It looks obvious to me that NRG will keep him, but with how things have been going lately and all the unexpected stuff, another org might put in the big bucks to get him in.

Also, as much as I'd love to see Seagull and Taimou together, I doubt he'll join EnVy. Effect has been playing a good Mccree lately, and Taimou is starting to pick up on projectile heroes, looks like they're filling their roles to me. Perhaps they'll get a Rein and a Pharah player or something, but KyKy likes throwing off people so I can't really base what I'm saying on anything.
I also doubt that Effect would be ok with being a sub, neither would Seagull since Taimou will 100% be on the starting roster.

#10

spiderlily

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I heard rumours that Seagull is now on a streaming contract for NRG, not a player contract. In which case there's a chance he no longer has a huge buyout. & Taimou has said on stream that the current NRG has no past members on it. And tbh I don't know if Seagull wants to stay on NRG. He defintely doesn;'t give the vibe that he does.

Seagull might be happy to join NV even if as a sub. He's good friends with Taimou. NV is the best in the west. I 100% think it's a possiblity he goes there. Also why would they get a Rein? Cocco is on the team.

#11

KuroiRyuu9625

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100% with you on the Cocco thing, he's one of the best Reins in the west so I don't think they're even considering replacing him.

Also from how Reinforce was dodging the question on Dogman's Ulimate Advantage podcast I'm thinking that Cocco might even get to play at the Blizzcon playoffs for the OWC.

#13

Involv3r

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Whether it's a streamer or player contract, losing Seagull has a huge repercussion. I'm not saying it's impossible, just highly unlikely that they would let him go without a big offer.

And being good friends with players on the best team isn't enough to justify Seagull being a sub imo, plenty teams are being formed so the ranking might change. If Effect wasn't as good as he is, this could be a real possibility, but for now, this is a huge stretch to me.

Also, I don't agree with Kuroi's statement about Cocco being one of the best Reins in the west. He's a smart player, but not one of the best.

#7

Winter

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Can't see him staying on NRG. Think he'd of announced by now if he was staying with the organisation. Sinatraa and Hydration (rumoured to be on the roster) have also shit talked him at times in the past, so could see personality clashes with that as well.

#8

ThisOldDog

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Sinnatra and Seagull would be scary, however, NRG hasn't dropped iddqd and a player of his skill wouldn't really be a sub, so if they keep everything they have, they have one of the most popular and best projectile dps player, an insanely strong hitscan player and a godlike Tracer who has a Zarya that can build 3 gravs in 2 minutes, however, i don't imagine NRG would spend 150K on an Flex/offtank player who we haven't seen play 5/6 tanks, maybe 3 dps will be stronger now since d.va is nerfed, however, we've seen what happens to teams who don't have strong offtanks (Rouge, EUnited, even IMT to an extent) But i can imagine Seagull on the Junkrat, Iddqd on the Mccree and Sinnatra on Zarya destroying on Kings Row, as well as a 3 dps dive, but the only real way for this to work is if either Iddqd or Sinnatra transfer over to being a Flex player, we've seen Seagull play Zarya and Hog, but that's really meh, Sinnatra's Zarya is better and i haven't been impressed by Seagull's hog.

#12

KuroiRyuu9625

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Could be that IDDQD is on until Sinatraa can play though. Depending on the length of his contract he may not be able to opt out, but I don't know.

#4

ThisOldDog

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Can't imagine NRG giving him up, he's one of the most popular players and if they kept Seagull i think NRG would get alot of fans, and we've seen NRG in a bidding war before, however, no one knows.

#6

Pixelfish

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I can't imagine that Seagull would be on a team where he isn't on the starting roster.

#14

accountseverywhere

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Seagul will not play for any team unless its clear they will have high success. He has too high a value as a streamer and too much reputation on the line. He may go back to his roots and play for the love of the game but he would be risking alot. Hes a smart guy and its hard to risk all that easy money from streaming. He could probably stream for the rest of his life and be comfortable.

#15

BigBad01

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I could have sworn that Seagull said on stream recently that he no longer has any affiliation with NRG.

#16

Hudsen

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Don't Seagull and Sinatraa play mostly the same roles? I might be just thinking about Sinatraa's role within the context of his team when he was with Selfless but I feel like their hero roles would overlap.

Also if Seagull were to actually play for a team I feel like he'd be a part of the Houston OpTic team that's going to be playing in OWL, unless NRG chooses to cut iddqd (which I don't think they should do because that's a scary DPS duo) but I'm not the one calling the shots for their team

#18

Generation1

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no they don't. Sinatraa is known mostly for his Tracer and Zarya. Seagull plays neither at the level Sinatraa does. Sinatraa's Mcree, soldier, and roadhog are also far better than Seagull's and comparable to IDDQDs (and more relevant).

Seagull however, is a far superior genji and pharah (and mei, bastion, junkrat).

IDDQD was released from NRG as well. None of the former players are on the team. It's almost definitely Sinatraa and Hydration with zombs on the bench for their dps.

#19

Blue

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when was he released?

#17

Admirable

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Can I just derail this thread by suggesting Kruise to C9 KongDoo?

A chipper English gent with a love for all things Korean representing London?!

#20

robokun87

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According to his twitter IDDQD is still part of NRG unless he got the boot a few minutes ago...

#21

poi98

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i think he will play sinaatra role until sinatraa can plays

#22

Generation1

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He hasn't been officially released and I don't have the links to any vods or clips but multiple people have said he's not part of the new team that's being built. Also multiple people have said hydration and sinatraa

#23

Pixelfish

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I expect Hydration/Sinatraa.

Regarding Seagull, whatever team he's going to, there's no way he'd agree to be a sub. That removes Envyus from the equation.

Regarding Kruise to London... I like it. Bring Boombox along with him and that'd be sick.

#24

robokun87

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I'm probably miles away but for me the most realistic team he will end up on is Immortals, considering how shit they've been recently he would be a starter and bring all the fan fair with him which won't do Immortals any harm at all.

#26

Generation1

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but IMT's problem isn't Agilities.

#29

robokun87

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Maybe not but Seagull is still better (according to the fanboys) and considering how much bad press Immortals have had this week thanks to the Brazilian CS roster having Seagull in the lineup will bring some positive press and I mean who else will he join where he will be a starter and not a sub, but hey we will find out soon enough.

#31

Involv3r

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Do you really think deals like these are made last minute ??? And Agilities is one of the nicest guys ever, don't see how other people's problems are related to him... That is even less likely than Seagull joining EnVy.

#25

PapalWizard

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I think until otherwise specified it's most likely he'll be part of the org he's currently associated with.

#27

Winter

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https://twitter.com/A_Seagull/status/911375713902632960

We'll find out tomorrow.

#30

Involv3r

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OOOH SHIT!

#28

Pixelfish

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o shit can't wait

#32

Admirable

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Theory: Seagull and flame pretty tight in the past, could be involved in same OWL franchise :thinking:

#33

Involv3r

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I was thinking the same honestly. Flame’s a really smart player and is available right now. Don’t know if he’d choose the analyst path if he could make coach but I think he got the chops for it. He also wanted Seagull on Lucio for the World Cup :thinking:
Please don’t Lucio BlessRNG

#34

poi98

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Seagull already said he will not play genji in his OWL team

#35

Involv3r

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That’s fine by me, but didn’t he say it was rusty IIRC. Hopefully we can get to see his pharah and mei at least. Other possibility would be offtank, but did he practice them enough to fill that role ? We’ll know more soon (TM).

#36

Pixelfish

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WTF HES ACTUALLY ON ENVYUS NOW.

I have so many questions. How big was the buyout? Why did he want to go to Envyus of all places? Is he even going to be on the starting roster? If yes, in what position? If no, then why did he go to envyus?

AHHHHH

#37

Involv3r

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HE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!

https://twitter.com/TeamEnVyUs/status/911666757349384194

POGGERS https://twitter.com/TeamEnVyUs/status/911668339629547522

#38

Winter

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I KNEW IT. FUCKING PRAISE ME BOYS.

#39

Involv3r

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Winter is coming BlessRNG

#41

KuroiRyuu9625

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Fucking Genius.

#40

BigBad01

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If Seagull is actually on the bench for ENVY I'm going to feel so Jebaited

#42

Pixelfish

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HE BETTER NOT BE ON THE FUCKING BENCH I SWEAR TO GOD

#47

Alora

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i get that he's popular cause streamer, but its a bit of a stretch to say he's anything but a straight downgrade for envy. guy hasnt played competitive in like ten years and when he did his performance was lackluster at that

#48

robokun87

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Don't say that here mate trust me, to most people Seagull is an absolute god and will dominate the OWL don't say anything otherwise.

I've never been a fan so I can't wait to see him in action.

#49

remiska

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mate ypu gonna get destroyed for saying it, this site is full of seagull fans
but i agree with you
edit robukon i said same to you ;)

#43

Loco

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so is he replacing Mickie? that's what makes the most sense to me

#44

Winter

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He'll probably play the Haksal role. Projectile when needed or sub in for Lucio if they want Harry on Soldier etc.

#45

Pasta

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But why? NV is already a team to beat. What's happening?

#46

Involv3r

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Always try to improve your team is the best mentality.

I'm still shook. I'm really intrigued as to what role he'll fill, sub or starter. STREAM :rage:

#50

BigBad01

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Real talk, fam:

How bad should I feel about going from consistent ENVY-hater to instant ENVY fanboy? Because that's what I just did.

#51

Hisoka

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Envy has been my favorite team since they formed, and they have never looked better than right now.

I like Seagull, I think he's a great guy and good player, but unless he strictly subs in for Taimou in matches where they feel the need for a Genji or Pharah(which they haven't felt since Talespin left), I don't see him starting in tourneys much if at all.

He's a good brain to have on the team though, and should offer some valuable insight when they review VODs and such.

That being said, I welcome all former NRG fanboys. You are now full fledged EnVyUs fanboys like me.

#52

Hisoka

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Surprised so many people automatically think he's a replacement for someone. If I'm EnVy I'm not changing a damn thing right now in terms of the starting lineup.

He's a valuable addition regardless, even if he doesn't play in the starting lineup, he's an asset to any team.

#53

majkel1893

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nothing but a benchwarmer to be honest he will see no play at all.
effect and taimou just at least 50 leagues above this bird.

#54

BigBad01

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effect and taimou are both amazing, but there are heroes that Seagull plays better than either of them.

#58

Involv3r

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Some people are tunnel visioning on this so hard lmao. I wouldn't even bother tbh.

#62

KuroiRyuu9625

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Honestly I could see then using him in triple DPS comps with Genji, Pharah or Hanzo or on the Zarya, if he plays at all. This would have him subbing with Mickie, because I don't see either EFFECT or Taimou sitting for him and because I think he is better on those heroes than the other players.

I'm not holding my breath though, just a possibility.

#63

Involv3r

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I said the same thing about Taimou and Effect, they're too good at their roles to potentially give up a starter position (given that Taimou would pick up on projectile heroes that nV was desperately lacking). Which was my reasoning behind not thinking this move would happen.

It makes perfect sense though, Timo for Hog, Mickie for Dva, Seagull for Zarya + projectiles, and Taimou-Effect can improve on the heroes they already play. Fits like a glove doesn't it ? But somehow the fact that he wouldn't be an automatic starter blinded judgement (mine included) even though we're aware that he hasn't competed in a long ass time.

I just hope we can have Timogull for a long time, PMA matchmade in heaven.

#55

maxt3r

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Does this mean he could play in Contenders today?

#56

Involv3r

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Roster lock was 2 weeks ago IIRC. So no.

EDIT: Kuroi has the right answer below actually. Totally slipped my mind.

#57

KuroiRyuu9625

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He could since the roster lock only prevents team from using players that have played for another team but I don't think they would pull him out against Rogue.

They may have been underwhelming but they seem to be back in their element so there's a higher chance that they could prove a challenge.

#60

Hisoka

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I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that, but this is one of the biggest games of the tournament in terms of deciding 3rd-4th place.

So it's better for FNRGFE and Envision if EnVy don't try that out today lol but it's one of the best times for EnVy to try it out since they are locked in for the playoffs already. It depends on if they have already been scrimming together at all and if Seagull is in the team house already etc. etc.

#61

darkcvc

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For people arguing his skill, EVEN if he was not that good, this makes 1000% financially for any org considering his stream $$ AND now advertising, jersey, and overall merchandise money.

For no other reason than that, any org would be idiots to not sign this man.

#64

remiska

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i see this tittle chnage...
ita kinda misleading coz most of this thread is about speculating so i personally prefare tittle that represents it

#65

Winter

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Wasn't me.

#66

remiska

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you cant do it only mods can (i would guess kuroi he is a little bit too overzealous for my taste as moderator ;) but not that its bad)
edit unless you are moderator and i havent noticed

#67

Pixelfish

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Seagull Kreygasm

#68

xDrac

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Will Seagull play for ENVY outside the league as well? (in tournaments like APEX and so on for example)?

#69

darkcvc

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APEX is a korean only tourney now, and the US tourneys are going to mainly be OWL, with each OWL location getting the opportunity to run Blizzard sanctioned OW events during the off season. I assume the rosters will be the the same for any of these tournaments.

#70

xDrac

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Ah okay thank you :)

#71

candlestick

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People saying seagull will just sit the bench are just wrong IMO, he can easily be the world's best pharah (if he already isn't) should he choose to specialize, and has shown an absolute mastery over niche heroes like hanzo and rat. He is also one of the smartest players I have ever watched, and I'm talking about the way he absolutely redefined the meta of TF2 with his insane pace on roamer more than his OW career. Even assuming EnVy wants to let effect genji and taimou flex to tracer/soldier there is still a lot of room for seagull to have massive impact in KyKy's often innovative schemes.

#72

Involv3r

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I agree with most of what you're saying but calling people braindead for not seeing what you see isn't productive my doggie.

#73

candlestick

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edited 4 tone thanks

#74

Generation1

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Also, we all know Seagull is good at tracer... he's openly stated he plays it on alt accounts before. His tracism is a stream personality. He loves heroes with movement abilities so there is no way he doesn't actually like tracer. Maybe effect plays genji and seagull is on tracer.

And Candlestick is right, Seagull is the best soldier tf2 ever had even over b4nny. He is without a doubt the best pharah in the world.

#75

candlestick

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I doubt that they would put seagull on tracer ever, taimou has said before that effect is the best player on the team and my guess is the only time they will ever take effect off tracer is to put him on doomfist and then have taimou flex tracer. I will be very surprised if effect spends more than 10 total minutes on the bench throughout the first season of OWL

#76

Admirable

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Sorry just joining this thread late, I think Seagull will join EnVy.

#77

PotatoKing

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I find that a bit of a stretch.

#78

remiska

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hmmmm and tittle has question mark back

thinking......

#79

spiderlily

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We are heading into a Pharmercy meta, people. The Mercy changes are cementing that. Seagull is gonna be starting for NV on a lot of maps.

#80

Involv3r

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Mercy will get nerfed eventually. No way she makes it out into pro play as is right now. A bunch of pro players already said she's just plain broken, just a question of time.

#81

spiderlily

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?? A bunch of pro players said she was broken before she even went live. Mangachu even went on a rant about how much he told Blizz in the dev discord that she was broke. still went live. She's gonna be around until the next balance patch at least. She will be in pro play.

#83

Involv3r

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That Mangachu tweet was about being able to go back to spawn, swap to something and then swap back to get your abilities back (be it Dva to get Mech back or Mercy to get res or whatever), not about Mercy herself (pretty sure about this unless there was another tweet I didn't see).
And Mercy wasn't broken before, she was garbage (bad kinda broken), which is why she never saw any play time in pro play if the team wasn't running a Pharah. She was 'good' in ranked simply because it's solo queue.

Taimou said yesterday that new Mercy would get a 100% pick rate in pro play too. She's invincible for 20 seconds; Winston can't even get to her with a double jump on certain maps btw, her GA speed is crazy and the slingshot bug is actually legit broken. AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK IN THE AIR FOR SO LONG.
So now, instead of Mercy hiding for res, we get a whole team babysitting a potential res.

So no, as much as I like watching Pharah, this iteration of Mercy will not make it into tournaments.

#82

KuroiRyuu9625

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I'm hoping they just tweak the Valkyrie duration and rez CD, I'd think reducing the former to 15 seconds and increasing the latter to 60 seconds still makes her strong in the poke phase/early fight with the possibility of getting a 2nd rez if the fight drags on but it gives teams more leeway too.

Now, if they don't tweak her I think Seagull's Pharah could very well see play time whenever they decide to put him in (APAC probably?)

#84

Involv3r

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That could definitely be a start and will probably tone her down to a reasonable level.
I'm seriously questioning whether Blizzard runs these changes seriously before letting get through PTR.

#85

KuroiRyuu9625

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Obviously they do, the problem is you need a much larger sample size than what you get through internal testing or PTR to get meaningful data, even if the Pros are kicking and screaming about it they represent such a small fraction of the player base that Blizz, in line with their balancing philosophies, won't only take their opinions into account.

I think it's easy to sit back and complain about how broken she is and why they let it go through as-is but realistically if they're trying to reach most of the player base this is the only way to do it. I'm not saying it's the best way, because I don't think it is, but I do feel like it's how they've chosen to handle it at the moment.

#86

Involv3r

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I don't know if they do it seriously enough. It's just like Bastion's ironclad drama all over again, to a lesser degree the recent Hanzo ult buff that has been canceled, Junkrat with two 120 dmg mines, how did that shit make it to the live servers is still beyond my understanding.

Also, I don't think the pros were ever exaggerating about any buffs/nerfs throughout the game's lifespan, so why not give them priority feedback and actually make the game better.
And I strongly believe that if all heroes are in a good spot at the highest level, they'll eventually be at the lowest.

And this isn't a complaint, this is legitimate concern. And as long as it's not the best way, it's not the only way. I'm sure they have a lot to deal with, but ranked is a mess on many fucking levels, observing tools are not in a good state, the last two patches have been underwhelming to say the least. I know they're trying but this isn't enjoyable at all.