Yiska reports 2-2-2 role lock coming to Stage 4

#1

karzahni14

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this seems like a bait

.....i hope it's a bait

#2

ideekae

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Why balance OWL when you can balance the game

#3

LordOfHorns

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This is dumb
Please be bait

#4

Frozello

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Once a upon Dive Dive Dive.... Dive

#5

DixR

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I was a hard defender of 3-3 but I'm glad Blizzard is doing this. Teams had 1 year to find something else and were unable to do it/ blindly playing 3-3 when they were clearly trash at it. Finally some real changes.

#31

Gewaldro

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Is it really the League's fault when teams are unable to adapt? Shouldn't they be able to adapt properly as the best players at the game?

#6

Raisin

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If the goal was to get rid of goats, this is probably the worst way to do it. You could better solve the "problem" while simultaneously allowing for creativity in comp choices by simply deleting brig.

#7

Hi

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people should let them know the better suggestions they have then

#9

LaurenceR

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Hmmm, almost like Jayne did this nearly a year ago

#15

Hi

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quick link it to jeff

#8

robokun87

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I'm against forcing teams to use certain comps or allowing them to ban maps/heroes in most games nowadays but if there was ever a game that needed such drastic action to be taken it was OW to get rid of the horrific goat bullshit that was going to be the death of the game.

Hopefully this is merely a bandage and they will solve the problem properly in the long run but either way I'm 100% glad to see the back of goats and will look forward to watching some OW.

People talk about "better ways", like what? personally for me tanks should always prevent damage and dps should always deal it yet in OW you had tanks doing both, give them more ways to tank damage and less ways to deal damage, I mean who doesn't want to see actual dps heroes being used to do damage?

#10

Farsil

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I am not fond of this coercive way to disrupt the meta. At this point of the game, I think blizzard would have been better off having 1 hero banned per team. 2 heroes out of 30 (and more coming) isn't a big deal, and would provide insight to blizzard itself in terms of what heroes are the most powerful or the most unpleasant to play against.

#11

Weinin

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And people would just ban goats counters. The only way to get rid of goats is by either locking 2-2-2 or removing Brig, and they're never going to remove Brig.

#12

LordOfHorns

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The best way is to change the game, outlawing a play style in the game is ridiculous. It’s like if baseball banned having a shortstop, it’s a terrible change

#14

Farsil

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I am not so sure about that. Imagine facing a team that you know they have better GOATS. It makes sense for your team to ban GOATS heroes, because you know that in a mirror GOATS match you're likely to lose.

An hero ban system has the potential to both increase the strategic depth of the games, and their overall variety.

#18

jawlecks

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The only way to get rid of goats is by either locking 2-2-2 or removing Brig

If this is true then why wouldn't people ban Brig if a ban system was implemented?

#34

Frozello

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Hero bans won't make much sense unless you would know, which hero is banned or will be banned for given maps days before so you can actually plan substitutes. Also you would have to include this ban system in ranked (since people probably would whine ranked not being the same with pro play like last year) and to be fair that would be just chaos as people would just go insta tilt-mode, if their favorite hero is banned 5 seconds into game.

Also why even scrim at all, if you can't practice anything as you don't know, if this or that hero will be banned? Maybe, if there would be higher hero count for tank and support category.

#37

aranval

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Somehow moba players are able to train with double/triple bans from both sides. How that's possible?
Your argument is totally invalid, you don't practice single hero pick.

#38

Frozello

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Why create unique strategy with X heroes, if you won't even be able to use them? You are not meant to be stubborn and play with that X hero whole game, if it doesn't work.

You are just using very weak comparison and you probably know it, but think about this: MOBAs (Dota2/LoL) have over 100 heroes, where as Overwatch currently stands at 30. Lets do Double/Triple ban for OW too then, if you say 30 heroes is enough so why not just reduce them to 26 or 24? Ban 6 tanks, no problem just play that 1 remaining tank.

Also you clearly didn't read word "SUBSTITUTE". Why have subs, if you don't even know, which heroes would be banned? And since that system would have to be in ranked too so good luck, if you really want to think it would currently work for OW.

#13

xCarbine_OW

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Honestly I don't get this. First off, in lower elo goats isn't even a problem. There are also plenty of other viable comps and variations of goats floating around that work really well. Also, goats requires a lot of coordination to be successful which is when the game is it's most fun imo - when you coordinate perfectly with your team. If everyone really just wants to go back to dive every game then that's fine I guess.

It would also be really bad for the OWL if this role lock would be for OWL only. If they think viewership is bad now, it's going to get worse when people don't get the same experience at home.

Personally, I have no problem with the current meta. It has been shifting slowly lately and blizzard is trying to make changes that dont just break the game. And for people complaining about metas, every game had one get used to it.

#17

wentaway

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But aren't they just talking about OWL?

My question is do pro players (as a whole) really dislike playing GOATS? Or is it "just" DPS players, which means 1/3 of the pros?

That said they are doing it for the viewers, as apparently people can't follow what happens in 3-3 and so don't enjoy it?

I'm personally tired of GOATS, but the same way I was tried of the Mercy meta or the dive one, metas become stale after a while, but imo you don't fix them by introducing hard locks like this one.

I agree with Farsil, why not introducing a banning system which has been missing for years, both heroes and maps?

#16

Emaxmagnus

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This is beyond dumb to me but if they found an agreement with the players I'll take it (assuming they actually asked for pros opinions)

#19

murasaki

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why even bother fixing the game OMEGALUL

#20

monkaS

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monkaS

#21

hoobdeebla

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2-2-2 lock isn't the way to go - max 2 support lock is. then goats doesn't work but it still allows for triple/quad dps with ball, triple or quad tank, etc. 2-2-2 lock removes too many variables to still have a game that's both fun to play and fun to watch. another potential solution would be a 1 hero ban but i doubt blizz would do that considering brig would be the obvious choice

#22

BrooklinZoo

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The game would be decided at the ban phase.

Team 1. San Francisco Shock. Dominant GOATS comp. Also have probably the best Tracer player in the game. Bans McCree.
Team 2. Anyone not the Titans. Weaker GOATS comp. Bans Brig.

Tracer absolutely dominates this game.

Game 2. Bans are reversed.

Team 2. Bans what Brig, then we repeat game 1. Bans Tracer, now you lose to GOATS.

Team 1. Laughs all the way to the bank at a team that cannot pidgeon hole themselves harder.

#23

BrooklinZoo

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Scenario 2, still decided at ban phase.

Team 1. Vancouver Titans. Dominant GOATS comp. Dominant Dive comp. bans Orisa.

Team 2. Any team not the Shock. bans Brig. loses to dive.

game 2 bans reversed.

Team 2. Bans what brig, repeat game 1. Bans a dive hero? loses to GOATS.

Team 1. lols hard.

#25

Raisin

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Well, most teams just lose to Titans and Shock anyways, and if you forced teams to declare starting lineups before the ban phase, you eliminate the problem of shock having the best Tracer player (I'm assuming you're talking about Striker). The issue ends up being that you just don't get to see the best players on their best heroes. Imagine how much less fun games would be if everyone just always banned Zen against Jjonak. Or if DDING and Jinmu never got to play Pharah.

#26

BrooklinZoo

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I was in fact referring to Striker. Not that Sinatraas a slouch on Tracer either if players were picked pre bans or anything. But yeah losing to them would be a different level all of a sudden they (Titans and Shock) could let others ban GOATS and just outplay them on other comps that they banned the counter too. While the substandard GOATS teams (read almost everyone else) are required to ban GOATS or lose. That's not good competitively at all, hero bans wouldnt be terrible for matchmaking but who gets to ban a captain of some sort or a team vote......ahhhhhh yes another thing for players to get toxic about cause it didnt go their way sounds good for the game/sarcasm. Bans are not currently a solution, not a bad idea, but not til we have 60+ heroes with enough overlap that they cant ban out entire methods of countering a hero.

#30

thatagedwell

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scenario almost every game:

team 1: Vancouver titans is a very strong

team 2: isn't as good at Vancouver

team 2 loses

you act like people expect hero bans to make titans lose

#33

BrooklinZoo

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No I'm implying that The Titans will have a harder time losing as hero bans heavily favor the better teams and not the lesser teams.

#24

Pixelfish

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This makes me nervous, but Overwatch has surprised me before so I'm cautiously optimistic that it could end up being alright. But, I'm still nervous regardless because especially in the case of OWL, this could go oh so very wrong for teams that have been dominating for the larger parts of the season. We'll see what goes down.

#27

Blank_ow

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I feel like if 2-2-2 gets introduced to OWL, it will eventually get introduced to competitive ladder, which is healthy for the game. 2-2-2 allows for role queue, which allows for a more stable ladder system. You lose creativity, but you allow for a more consistent ladder experience, allowing players to queue for the role they desire and for more consistent compositions in line with how OW is meant to be played (i.e. at least one tank and two supports not the usual quad dps).

It's know it's difficult for a lot of people to see through the negative aspect of "less creativity in compositions" but overall 2-2-2 and role queue will have a net positive impact on the game (that's without even mentioning job stability in OWL).

Edit:This is a 20 minute video by montecristo about 2-2-2. Worth the watch for those of you who have time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLaBlp7bCAM

#28

wentaway

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it will eventually get introduced to competitive ladder, which is healthy for the game. 2-2-2 allows for role queue, which allows for a more stable ladder system.

True, but how long will the queues be?
I totally agree forcing everyone to stick to 2-2-2 in comp OW would be a solution to weird/unfun matches on the ladder, but opens a lot of other possible issues.

Is the 2-2-2 lock going to be enforced at a queue level? That might probably be the better option, but leads to potential gargantuan queues.

Is it only at character selection screen? Won't fix anything, people that doesn't want to play a different role will either quit the match (so back to queue issue) or throw (intentionally or via bad plays)

#29

Wombat

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They must do it at the queueing level, I totally agree with you that doing it at the character select screen would just lead to throwing.

As a support main who dabbles with tanks there is nothing I want more in the game than a 2-2-2 lock. It would bring a lot more structure to the game and be so much less frustrating, at least for the current reasons. I'm sure the new system will have it's own problems but I'm much happier to deal with those than being solo healer in way too many of my games.

#32

PoppingOffIRL

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They should have an option for triple dps for league since it favors dive comps, especially considering the previous dps buffs tanks will melt. Either way this sounds like a decent stop to goats, at least the matches will be way more fun to watch.

#35

murasaki

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completely unrelated but a map pick/ban system would be rlly cool

#36

Frozello

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As long as it wouldn't be like in CS:GO., where you could just be playing Dust2, Sure there's 20 maps by now (or is it 19?) so it's hard to know all the maps that well with different heroes.

Personally I would prefer more of map rotation done by Blizzard for each week or what ever would be the timeline.

#39

gabeconte

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I think they should make them play mystery heroes