Well first reaction is probably it's off-tank who gets benched/dropped as majority thinks need Winston or Rein, but when all current 8 (and possibly more?) heroes are meant to be "Main Tanks" in OW2 I don't think there will be a single player who can master all of them or 5-6 of them that team would be willing to go whole season with 1 tank.

To be fair it won't affect that many players as there is 54 Tank players in the League atm, which is basically 14 "extra" for current needs and I'm pretty sure most teams end up going with 2 tanks (assuming max team size might be changed to 10 though) maybe few brave teams go with 1. Sure 20 people effectively won't be playing, but can someone name a tank player who is excellent Rein, Winston, Orisa, Dva, Zarya, Hog, Ball, Sigma (in their current builds)? No need to think who could be as we don't even know, what stuff will be changed for some of them.

Xzi Genji? It's Sparkle, who is Genji player in Paris.

In general fan votes for anything are a joke. To be fair before today as Fusion is playing without Carpe and still playing very good I don't know, if my original argument for picking Carpe stands anymore as clearly. As of MVP should change his team "from Contender to Champions".

Personally I can't comment much of APAC teams as I haven't seen many of their games. Thankfully it's only 25% from fan votes.

Maybe you don't see, what you did there, but what ever.

You ended up also proving my original point with your comments though. So thanks for that.

I know learning and growing is hard, but damn people, it ain't that hard.

That's just calling me out in your first respond so choose your wording better next time then.

Well there's this one man who believes in "free speech" and look at how far he got in America and look how far he (hopefully) will drop in a few months.... there's something orange over here....

If wording is SOME 'insert group of people' are 'insert what they are' that's just like saying you won't find even one women or men from 3,4 billion each gender to be fitting into that category. As far as you can see that conversation is like Harryhook wanted one-night-stands, which he claims to have made clear to those women, but those women ended up wanting more? What's so wrong with that? Sure, if he calls women constantly with whores/sluts/meat/bitches etc. that's different conversation, but do you really get that information from those screenshots? If woman goes to bar with zero money and expects someone to buy her drinks, what does that make her to be? You are welcome to answer and I don't think it's anything positive.

Does it justify calling other people with what ever names? Of course not, but if you look at how that woman asks specifically her questions like that it's no wonder you get answer from like that. Like calling out "but you used these words before etc.". It's just same than I could say something similar here and call out random name who might have said it, but what does that really proof? You are acting like that, when you see 3 random screenshots of random conversation of 2 random person you have never heard or known you should jump to judge them based on that even, if it includes some nasty words from both sides?

He's not wrong about Americans either, just look at what kind of person they voted as their President. Does it make it wrong, when he uses bad words? Not really, but does it make him look any better, when he uses certain words? Choose yourself, but it almost looks like you are calling me a sexist or racist or something just based on your respond. If that's what you are trying to achieve I don't really know, what does that make you.

Well I'm with you there that I don't really see the problem based on those 3 screenshots as they are offering basically zero information.

It's silly though that most of the stuff Harryhook said... are technically true, but some people refuse to believe in facts that there's always some women or men who are, what they are. Just look at this whole Covid-19 situation... if everyone would just take it seriously and sit at home for few weeks or a month... it would get better, but how many of those people actually just went outside to "have some fun while you still can"?

Why they never share full conversation, but only parts of it?

Well to be fair any coach could have won with roster Fusion University had (Alarm, Zacharee, Beasthalo, Crakinlakin, WhoRU and Elk) while Aero was Head Coach. Bernar joined later to replace Crakinlakin. As they kept stomping whole NA bracket with mostly same roster for couple Contenders seasons.

I don't know how much value we should be putting into World Cup as there's basically not even 8 teams that should be able to compete for Gold and most teams went there to just have fun compared teams like USA was hardcore trying every year based on everything (roster picks, bootcamp etc). Sure every team were definitely trying to win games, but it's more for the show for the fans than "best players from all over the world" competing for Gold.

But Aero hard to say how good coach he is, when you don't know his methods or what kind of methods his players would need. Would be nice to know more about coaches in OWL to actually understand, which coach is behind some of those big brain plays or why is some players looking like so much better suddenly (BenBest etc) compared to last year.

Content

Most likely scenario, but guess they want to wait a while before making any announcements as nobody knows, if corona situation changes in potential places. Also in a way they would have to take in account can they get all players in that country (like might be hard for Chinese players to get into US as isn't that normally the issue for them?).

All I am saying you have to take in those kind of factors even, if it's very unlikely to happen. :P

Well, if we would of have had "normal" schedule I dare to say there would have been different kind of standings, but who knows exactly, what kind of. Like Chengdu might have won Boston etc. early on the season, but at the moment Chengdu might have just got boomed, which makes it complicated to justify, if some teams would have been eliminated without a "fair chance" for playoffs given current situation.

It's debatable, what is fair chance, but I think bracket they have it "okay". I'm a little bit sad though that at least one of the three Fusion, Eternal or Shock gets eliminated before Final Four. As I do expect to Charge / Dragons from APAC and 2 of the Eternal, Fusion and Shock from NA bracket to make it for final tournament

Glad that there wasn't just same winners for both regions than for May Melee.

It's a shame though Spitfire, Spark and Hunters are clearly bottom-3 in APAC, which just means NYXL, Dynasty, Charge and Dragons are bound to get those extra wins unless those bottom-3 teams get their stuff together for next tournament. At least in NA extra wins are not as clearly going for same teams each tournament.

And I'm only calling it a shame, if we end up having some kind of combined Standings for APAC and NA for season playoffs (if combined playoffs is bound to happen). Would be nice to get some extra playoffs qualification rounds for lower seed teams to really see, if Hunters for example are 18th best team as they never really got those "easy" wins vs toilet bowl NA teams early on the season.

Well I don't think Sparkle (since it was his Genji, which was mostly shown while blade happened and got shutdown, but Sparkle didn't even die always as he understood, when he had to back off) played badly with his blades while Philly did coordinate their stuns/knockbacks pretty nicely.

I don't really know, if there was one individual player who did most of the work for shutting down those Sparkle blades (without actually seeing POV of each player), but I think we can agree that Philly did their homework for that. Like Paris did shutdown Philly totally in Control maps.

Well yeah there's always couple teams like Toronro / Washington in Summer Showdown or Seoul in May Melee who surprised people by a lot. Wouldn't put too much value into these games while thinking who will be Grand Finals winner though, if we even will have actual Grand Finals with APAC and NA together this year? Would expect to see Shock, Fusion, Eternal, Charge or Dragons winning it though no matter what.

It was actually pretty impressive to watch how Philly (Alarm Brig and Fury Sigma or maybe Sado Orisa pulls too?) kept Sparkle zero with kills with blade quite often.

I didn't really notice or pay too much attention on Fury Sigma before, but when they mentioned Fury hitting almost every Rock it actually started to show to me that he actually did hit every Rock on important targets.

At least by the looks of we have at least 3 pretty damn good teams in NA side and 2 teams in Asia. Eternal, Fusion, Shock, Charge and Dragons just seems to be on their own level with current meta.

Teams like Valiant, Mayhem, Gladiators, Reign, NYXL and Dynasty shows some signs of life, but then right after that they get totally annihilated by some 'trash-tier' team, which actually just means that team is not 'trash-tier' anymore.

So Shock, Fusion, Eternal, Valiant and Mayhem Top Dogs in NA? (Not in order)

Who even would be Mid-table teams for NA?

Well yeah I am not really expecting anything for next year since those new team slots would have to be sold/bought about these times and nobody even knows, what the world looks like in 2021. Just shame, if there's no more openings for new players as I don't see some teams wanting to change anything.

I wonder, if there has been any talks or, if there even be any talks about possible expansion teams for next year? Just wondering, if current world situation has changed investors mind in a way or another.

Hard to see many Contenders players making it into OWL Season 4 without few more teams.

At least Monthly stuff sounds good chance just, because I think it's much nicer to know you are stuck with certain patch for a month instead of wondering, if it will change in 2 weeks or not etc.

Is it really Blizzard who needs to do something though, if not enough viewers watch Contenders? Like, what would even make people watch Contenders? Other than some obvious cheesy drops. Personally I have to say I was lost half the time, when there was even matches or I was simply just burnt out watching OWL already. There's only certain amount of Overwatch you can watch in a week unless you just glue your face into monitor for whole week.

Just by the scores it looks more like NYXL attack and Seoul defense was close round, but Seoul attack and NYXL defense was a slamdunk for NYXL. Maybe I am wrong after I watch some of the maps.,..

Well I think it's more about like, if you imagine them doing an intro video about something with whatever US history and then they throw out Korean players talking Korea...(Yes I know Ark does speak pretty good English)

It's a bit same with some other teams/players that how can I be interested to follow/watch them outside matches, if all I hear is a language that I do not understand (even, if team is actually based in a country, which main language I would understand). Doesn't even bother me, if there's some subtitles, but full video with subtitles isn't very interesting to watch while not understanding a thing, what they are talking. This goes for videos with an actual content outside of the game. I don't know how much effort teams/players are putting into learning English (if they don't already have decent English) or are they just counting on translators for rest of their playing career. Won't change in a week, but imagine playing in English speaking country for 3-5 years without knowing the language at all.

Some teams does it better, but some teams still feels like a mess.

Funny thing is I actually started to semi smoothly like (just like middle of the pack team in my liking list, which is still higher than last year) Justice early on the season while they still had all those players they had at the start of the season. Now I don't really care about them again. Who knows in 2 months or Season 4. Don't really hate though :)

Would really like to know, what kind of thought process there is, when some teams build up their staff/roster as sometimes I don't really understand, what are they trying to achieve with such moves.

Vancouver winning games after putting team together less than 48 hours ago and you think Washington should have lost? Are we playing 1 day game here or 2 weeks/months game?

Titans are looking "decent" and with little more team synergy and possibly KSAA and Tsuna somehow gets to NA (KSAA being dual citizen probably makes it possible for him eventually, but no idea, if Tsuna can get to NA that quickly given current situation). Maybe during June Titans might win a game, which depends of course, which teams they play (Boston and Washington) (maybe Toronto or Houston on certain hero pools). They won't stand a chance vs Shock, Fusion, Paris, Glads, Atlanta, Fuel maybe even Florida and Valiant during whole season, if Vancouver gets their team together in same place eventually.

To be fair I don't expect them to win either of their games next week (Houston and Philly), but maybe Houston game could be "close", but no chance vs Philly.

Well I meant more about, if you look at those 5 teams and their rosters do you really have one (or few) name(s) that shines out? Maybe I worded it badly, but it was meant more about, when you look at rosters just by names.

Boston? No
Houston? No, you could argue for Danteh, but not that big of a deal.
Toronto? Maybe Surefour, but doesn't really shine out.
Valiant? I didn't even know half the team before this season started
Washington? Well Corey is out so no

Nothing really shines out from any of these rosters. Decent or even good players, but not really any "superstar".

Hot take Titans win 3-1!

To be fair after couple weeks of practice for team synergy and stuff like that this team could look like one of the following teams Boston, Houston, Toronto, LA Valiant or Washington.

This aged well

Have very little knowledge of most of these players, but have to say roster looks interesting. Wonder who will be 7th player (or any other ones for subs).

Hard to see them anywhere else than in bottom half of the league, but hey what did everyone say about Valiant...

Trades incoming or Contenders pickups?

I don't know sure dive (think I started following EU/NA Contenders Season 0) was fun to watch like anything is, when you start watching anything, but to be fair it was kinda stale meta Winston/DvA/Lucio/Zen/Tracer + Widow or Genji that's how almost every map went as far as I can remember. That's just after thoughts that it wasn't really diversified meta even sure it was probably fun to watch and play.

Just hope we actually would get to stay in metas, where most of the team has a meaning instead of 5 of the team members in each team waiting for widow 1v1 duel winner cleaning up the rest of the field.

Tank and Support lives matters.

Imagine how much money was spent on Spitfire Trio and how much Seoul is shitting the bed right now...

That is and always have been my only critic towards full KR rosters in anywhere else than in Seoul. It's same as Finnish team of what not sport or e-sports would pick up full Swedish roster while there is at least some prominent Finnish players around.

Well that's not reason to shit talk the organization if you want to stay with your family and parents.

Like I don't know how their families are in KR, but they say Covid-19 situation in Korea is pretty stable.

Is Florida better than last year? Yes

Do they have more LOCAL fans? A team without local fan base is no team at all. Does this apply to Florida? Who knows

Sure color scheme is cooler for Florida this year, but I don't follow Florida enough in social media to see, if they are putting any content out, which isn't just "read subtitles" like most teams with KR roster does for their videos. Like I am not saying nobody can't speak Korean or any other language at all in those videos, but 10 minutes videos with only Korean as language is just something I don't care to watch, when team is not based in Korea. I would say same about any other language too, which isn't spoken as primary language in that country, where team is based in.

Also by the way have you noticed how saying anything semi-bad about Runaway always gets people angry? Titans never had fans, all they had was Runaways fans. Proof me wrong.

Imagine trying to build a team brand in North America with having only players who speak Korean and find out it's not working , who could have guess? /s

Not to say "I told you so", but this was possible to be foreseen pretty early on Season 2. Everywhere were just talking about "Runaway this Runaway that".

Obviously it's possible to play from anywhere for now, but wonder if every player needed to have a webcam etc. to be able to show their equipment etc. (Just remember seeing from Soon's vlog some weeks ago that Paris team was showing their equipment and pockets etc. for not having any "illegal" stuff with them). Just wondering how does that process go with referee check-ups.

There may be some truth in that "easier wins in NA" in their choice, but I don't know moving players around the world isn't all that simple. As far as we know they had facilities in Vancouver, but they moved into Korea and they have something there or did they just tell players to play at home?

I don't know, which non-KR organizations even have facilities in Korea or can you even get a place to build operations there with this short notice? Team still has to be able to support the players no matter, where they play and how many non-KR staff members there is for Titans that probably couldn't be in Korea forever, if their visas expire at some point?

Maybe, but I think New York XL moving away from New York is understandable given current situation (case/death numbers and all the lockdown stuff), but hardly any other US state is even close to same situation currently. And in Canada it's Quebec / Ontario with reasonable high numbers, but rest of the country seems to be still pretty small numbers.

When you put it that way It just shows players don't care about that organization/city/team so why would fans want to care about that team, if their players are willing to care about fans of the team? You are saying players don't want to win in Vancouver is just another red flag, why sign with a team, which you don't want to win for? Players knew they would be in their teams home market for this season so, what the hell they expected?

Honest opinion ain't the same than truth. I may not like something, what is happening in the world, but my opinion still may not be the truth no matter how much I try to make everyone believe it. Shit talking their previous team publicly is just a sign to other teams that person might not be ideal person to sign as you never know, what he might say after he leaves your team. You are saying teams are not afraid to picking up players with "bad reputation", but just google a little and you find little more information about some players that do not even get a chance, because of their "bad reputation", which might be true or not, who the heck knows.

It's just same situation than with former London Spitfire GM Susie Kim tweeting about not being able to make fan meeting in Seoul, when their freaking team represents London.

Maybe Titans organization haven't been treating players as they would have wanted, but it seems some people believe everything they hear from internet and think it's 100% truth. Saying they haven't been treated the way they wanted to be treated is same as not really telling anything. Do you think players have really been giving 100% (PR and stuff) for their organization too?

That's the only part (from public information) I can agree that it's very odd that Vancouver moved from NA -> KR -> NA. Otherwise players are meant to be the area, where team plays.

It was a red flag already before Season 2, when it was told that Runaway would sign only, if whole team signs. Does anyone really think that creates good relationship with team management, when you are forced to sign some people you don't really want, but you wanted 75% of the players? I think not.

That's not I, what I meant. It's not like Vancouver (or any other team) organization didn't have something planned in their home city, when we were still meant to have Homestands. Titans is Vancouver, Vancouver is Titans, why buy a team slot into Vancouver, if you don't want to have your players in the area you are going to play most of your Homestands? Nothing weird, if Korean player wants be in Seoul, but if that is, what they expect while their team name is something else than "Seoul Dynasty"... I find it hard to really understand, what goes into their mind...

Like I get it, if they would have relocated (before covid-19 situation) into LA or whatnot place for most of the season to eliminate travelling to minimum, but so far I find it really hard to side with either side in Titans players vs Titans management so called issue. I don't know, what's going on, but some players on this case or some previous similar cases with players leaving the team, which involved drama with team are not really making themselves look good by some of their twitter comments. Sure there's probably something done wrong both sides, but some previous players from Boston at least did pretty low-grade comments about Boston after they left the team and, if I would be picking players for my OWL team I would think twice before even considering to sign such player (no matter how badly Boston was managed at the time or still is).

Like Vancouver management side has been quiet in public so, what can you say about them? Nothing really with real facts, but players put up something into social media, which of course doesn't make team look good, but what does that really tell about the player?

I just find it odd that, if players didn't want to live in Vancouver... why sign with that team in the first place. Not that I know too much of the details in this one, but just find it really really hard to like some Korean players, when their usual respond is "would like to play with KR roster" and not to talk about how many KR players seems to been troublemakers in some teams (some westerns too, but hey that's Boston). Count all the internal drama in the league and most of it is involved or caused by Korean player (exclude 2 Boston Voldemort's).

Sure it looks weird with team moving from Vancouver to Korea and then back to Vancouver, but I don't know how bad situation it is in Vancouver area with Covid-19.

I think it's more about how much money they are spending and to be fair I doubt sinatraa was cheap.

Nothing wrong with making a team this early, but would sinatraa just leave his 150k for lets say something like 50k and uncertainty? But then again like I said in previous post it's American way to throw money into something and hope it ends up being profitably.

Because apparently in players contracts with OWL is a clause about not being able to retire and move into another game inside game organization. Don't remember actual wording, but someone was posting it (from rulebook I suppose) somewhere.

Yeah, but they have like zero data about anything (orgs wise, who are signing players and stuff). Of course there's hype like there is with any other new game, which has potential to be successful game, but it's mostly American mentality to pray while throwing money into something while hoping for profit.

I just don't think same viewers will be watching multiple titles (for what ever reasons they are watching them in the first place). Time is limited no matter how much anyone would want to watch everything.

It could be competing with CS:GO; but there also could be a new game in few years that makes everyone say the same about that game than they are saying about Valorant at the moment.

1-27 incoming unless Houston plays them on a week McCree is available

It's kinda funny how much money seems to be thrown into a game, which haven't even been released yet.

This aged well.

New York / London left "East Coast" group and went to Korea. That leaves Philly, Paris, Toronto, Boston, Florida, Washington, Atlanta and Houston into East Coast for now.

Vancouver / Seoul left "West Coast" group and went to Korea. Which means West Coast group iwould basically be Shock, Gladiators, Valiant and Dallas.

28 games between 4 teams at West Coast would be pretty boring so they will probably figure something out to create some diversity.

It's more about Dallas (and possibly Houston) playing teams from both East or West Coast as Texas is in the middle of nowhere. Where as Shock/Glads/Valiant are in California and presumably Florida, Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, Philadelphia, Boston and Paris(at New Jersey) at East Coast.