nitro [#4]I don't know what's the problem with this. He just said the fact that women are not performing as well as men in video games. Ster overreacted this.
I don't think that's ster
Ugh, I mean I agree with gale but his arguments are just like a dumbass 15 year old. Using a "triggered" meme in a discussion like this, what a fucking idiot. I guess this is why people who get popular always end up with a manager to stop them from conveying their arguments like a frail memer.
I do agree that women can't compete at the same level as men, but at the same time they shouldn't be discouraged from trying.
twerp [#8]lol wtf are the posts in this thread
for every female ow player there are probably 100 males. if you're not an amoeba then it should become really clear as to why there are more males in top 500 (hint: bc there are more males playing to begin with)
Yeah I used to feel that way but that can't be the only reason lmao. There has never been a female team in any game that can consistently match the top male teams. There has been plenty of time to make it happen.
Its really easy to act like im a villain and like I don't WANT women to be at the top, but looking at it in a completely practical way it just isn't likely. Any time there is a female player or team that shows a lot of potential I always support them. People are always so quick to jump on the side that makes them feel like a better person or as if they're making the "right" or "correct" choice, but if you ignore the truth then nobody progresses. The first female team to say "female teams aren't anywhere near male teams, this is how we plan to change that" will be more successful than the team who exhibits false confidence.
Blank [#12]what apology? why? He just laid out his opinion on the matter, shouldn't have to apologize for that (unless the org forces him to cause its TSM lol). He didn't even insult star personally, so I see no reason to apologize imo.
Because people are saying what they need to say to feel like better people. It's pretty difficult to be real and practical anymore...
http://www.liveatpc.com/cooler-master-announces-all-female-overwatch-team/
Either Gale is wrong or this is a team full of support mains
Guinea [#13]Because people are saying what they need to say to feel like better people. It's pretty difficult to be real and practical anymore...
If you are acting like a dick in public then you should probably apologize?
"They will never be as good as male teams"
"I can tell you have a feminist agenda."
It doesn't matter if he's right or not (I actually agree that for now, females aren't as good in ow).
Veems [#15]If you are acting like a dick in public then you should probably apologize?
"They will never be as good as male teams"
"I can tell you have a feminist agenda."
It doesn't matter if he's right or not (I actually agree that for now, females aren't as good in ow).
Nothing he said there is acting like a dick.
Its opinions he believes to be fact. What if it wasn't about gender and it was about regions? "EU teams will never be as good as NA teams" Would there be calls for formal apology? No, there would some EU people who will be slightly offended (nothing beyond posting about it or insulting him) and a bunch of people saying "LUL", nobody would say he needs to make a formal apology lol
Heres some advice to you....you don't need to be offended FOR people, it just makes things harder on yourself, because when something minor offends you, nobody is going to care.
@Guinea
ok so you think females can't move their forearm and wrist while sitting in a chair as well as males, or they're not as smart for in-game decisions? and that gender is the deciding factor? to me that's what real sexism sounds like
there are definitely females in top 500. surely more in asian ladder/in countries where gaming is more culturally accepted and less of hermit/"nerdy" activity. a player like Geguri is enough for anyone to realize that gender isn't the issue.
Guinea [#16]Nothing he said there is acting like a dick.
Its opinions he believes to be fact. What if it wasn't about gender and it was about regions? "EU teams will never be as good as NA teams" Would there be calls for formal apology? No, there would some EU people who will be slightly offended (nothing beyond posting about it or insulting him) and a bunch of people saying "LUL", nobody would say he needs to make a formal apology lol
Heres some advice to you....you don't need to be offended FOR people, it just makes things harder on yourself, because when something minor offends you, nobody is going to care.
Comparing two different things is pretty dumb.
"Jews will never be as good at overwatch as black people"
"I can tell you have a Nazi agenda."
:thinking:
Like depending on whatever you choose to compare (gender, race, nationality) it can come off as different levels of dickish.
twerp [#17]@Guinea
ok so you think females can't move their forearm and wrist while sitting in a chair as well as males, or they're not as smart for in-game decisions? and that gender is the deciding factor? to me that's what real sexism sounds likethere are definitely females in top 500. surely more in asian ladder/in countries where gaming is more culturally accepted and less of hermit/"nerdy" activity. a player like Geguri is enough for anyone to realize that gender isn't the issue.
"sexism" lmao youre bringing out strong terms like fucking SEXISM over video games. I think there has been PLENTY of females in every single competitive game over the years and if at any point they had what it takes to be at the TOP, it would have happened by now, regardless of what the reasoning is.
And as for the other guys response, that was a really desperate reach. You don't have people competing in a game representing race or religion. bad argument.
I suppose he also thinks that it's a scientific fact that men are better scientists and engineers since engineering is pre-dominantly male (>90% and way back in past >99% before people started to accept women in those positions). There was a time there were no female doctors either only nurses because women were considered to not be intelligent enough to be doctors. Guess we're still not past that type of train of thought.
Guinea [#7]Ugh, I mean I agree with gale but his arguments are just like a dumbass 15 year old. Using a "triggered" meme in a discussion like this, what a fucking idiot. I guess this is why people who get popular always end up with a manager to stop them from conveying their arguments like a frail memer.
I do agree that women can't compete at the same level as men, but at the same time they shouldn't be discouraged from trying.
The numbers argument is real and valid. You can't dismiss it as "that can't be the only reason" because it's the main one. If your talents pool is literally hundreds of times bigger chances are you will dominate the scene. Culture and social norms obviously play a big part in this but it's no secret that males just tend to be better at games. They're also mainly aimed at us in the first place so it's no surprise.
As for Gale I understand his point, but the way he was dismissive about a differing opinion and the "triggered" meme he used shows just how young and uneducated he is in the way of debating opinions in a direct, logical and respectful manner. From the comments he made I doubt he'll learn from this, but I still hope he does.
Having an opinion isn't wrong, ever. But dismissing other's and to some point ridiculing them is.
IMO.
SKYTRiXSHA [#21]Well its actually true that Female DPS player cant be better than Male DPS player, becouse physics.
Assuming Male reaction time is faster than womans regards all tests etc
Careful man, you're being reasonable and telling the truth. They might downvote you.
beijingswag [#24]feelsgoodman twerp is the only person in this thread that has a fucking brain lmao
completely embarrassing @ those who really believe that there is scientific evidence proving that men are born with a skill set that makes them better at "dps" lol!!
I don't think anyone is arguing that women are somehow genetically worse at video games or any such extremes.
But rather this ridiculous extent a poorly thought-out conversation over an obviously crude opinion is being taken just so some people can feel offended and it being publicly justified.
This victim mentality amazes me
cmd_ [#26]I don't think anyone is arguing that women are somehow genetically worse at video games or any such extremes.
But rather this ridiculous extent a poorly thought-out conversation over an obviously crude opinion is being taken just so some people can feel offended and it being publicly justified.
This victim mentality amazes me
"It's scientific fact that men can compete better than woman at games."
?????????????????????? scientific how????
beijingswag [#27]"It's scientific fact that men can compete better than woman at games."
?????????????????????? scientific how????
That was gale, the post he quoted literally said "in this thread"
Guinea [#13]Because people are saying what they need to say to feel like better people. It's pretty difficult to be real and practical anymore...
Real and practical as in stating baseless "facts" to put down women? An apology is not that big of a deal and shit like this can ruin people's image.
Guinea [#28]That was gale, the post he quoted literally said "in this thread"
yes, that was gale, isn't the whole thread about what he said ????? what???
Blossom [#29]Real and practical as in stating baseless "facts" to put down women? An apology is not that big of a deal and shit like this can ruin people's image.
"but at the same time they shouldn't be discouraged from trying." - Guinea
Guinea [#25]Careful man, you're being reasonable and telling the truth. They might downvote you.
I'd honestly be interested in seeing references to this scientific study that shows that men are better at video games given the same training, knowledge and other controlled circumstances.
Personally I've never heard of such a study but I don't claim to know everything. I will say that it's true that men are better at some things, like spacial recognition and orientation though I don't have knowledge of if this extends to hand-eye coordination in point and click situations.
From the information and knowledge I currently have I will say that I agree that males are more inclined to excel at games. I think mostly because of current societal norms, but I can't say with confidence that they are better because they are biologically built to be better gamers.
My issue with Gale isn't as much with his statement, which if not backed up by credible studies is just blowing hot air, but with his reaction to someone strongly disagreeing with him. I was a teenager once, and I pulling number or statements out of my ass was a normal thing.
Again, he's young and hopefully he just learns from this. The quicker you realize you don't know shit, the smarter you'll become, imo.
Veems [#15]If you are acting like a dick in public then you should probably apologize?
"They will never be as good as male teams"
"I can tell you have a feminist agenda."
It doesn't matter if he's right or not (I actually agree that for now, females aren't as good in ow).
I feel that you should make a formal apology for saying females aren't as good in ow, real dick move, man.
ideekae [#52]I think his argument with women not being able to make it pro is that he ignores the fact that they have made it pro.
How pro are we talking? "Making a living" pro or "contending with top teams" pro?
Like I think it would be cool to have more women on the scene but if there's oy 2 or 3 they can just be seen as anomalies. How many women would need to go pro before it's not seen as odd?
ELektrikBill [#53]How pro are we talking? "Making a living" pro or "contending with top teams" pro?
Like I think it would be cool to have more women on the scene but if there's oy 2 or 3 they can just be seen as anomalies. How many women would need to go pro before it's not seen as odd?
They're not anomalies if few women play OW in the first place.
accountseverywhere [#57]Untill we have the stereotypes removed long enough for women to grow up with a similar relationship to games as men have now, we simply won't have any good data. End of story.
This. Women are not equally represented socially, statistically, or culturally. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that men have some sort of biological advantage to make them better at moving a mouse and pushing keys. This isn't basketball or something where we can measure that men can simply jump higher and run faster.
Even the argument that men have better reflexes doesn't apply because as noted, there are plenty of top 500 women support players and that requires good reflexes as well. Mercy needs to react quickly to being picked and Lucio is basically all reflexes.
Just because there is a lack of women, doesn't mean they are not capable and to imply it, is reckless and stupid. We should encourage everyone, including women, to put in the time and effort to reach top levels because it's possible.
End of discussion
Side note: they are not "females". They are women. The word female denies them their humanity. Dogs and horses are female. However, human females have the distinction of having their own word that implies humanity.
Karma [#14]http://www.liveatpc.com/cooler-master-announces-all-female-overwatch-team/
Either Gale is wrong or this is a team full of support mains
I condemn what Gale said but using that team as an argument is extremely dumb considering that some of them are in platinum.
That being said I'm actually curios has there ever been a female that wasn't mtf trans that did compete at the top level against males in a popular esport (not counting card games)? I've personally never heard of one so I'm interested. If not an actual scientific research needs to be done so we can actually determine if there are differences that cause men to be naturally better at games or it's just that most women aren't interested and the ones that are are a small minority. Until that happens we can't prove one way or the other.
"Side note: they are not "females". They are women. The word female denies them their humanity. Dogs and horses are female. However, human females have the distinction of having their own word that implies humanity."
Your whole comment made complete sense until you added the side note, does the word male also deny men of their humanity?
victococoblazin [#55]Im here just so i can downvote guinea 4Head
damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
dude wtf I'm hurt
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
ty
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
the fuck?
harsha [#69]the fuck?
Couldn't decide where to put you. It was gonna be right with Sideshow cus you had North Korea flag for a while.
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
Ty man i like you too! :)
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
tfw will never make guinea-senpai's list :((
Clickbait [#73]tfw will never make guinea-senpai's list :((
Quit changing the subject. I want drama!
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
wtf you've made an enemy for life kid
accountseverywhere [#74]Quit changing the subject. I want drama!
Guinea's list is the only drama that matters
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
Wtf I'm not even specified on the hate list
Atleast I'm on SKYTRiXSHA's list, right sky?
Angry_rock [#78]Wtf I'm not even specified on the hate list
Atleast I'm on SKYTRiXSHA's list, right sky?
Not sure who you are but I added you https://gyazo.com/2244ddc582d61bd320576d0578203f6a.png
Angry_rock [#78]Wtf I'm not even specified on the hate list
Atleast I'm on SKYTRiXSHA's list, right sky?
Sorry but i wont have any midgets in my list.
Angry_rock [#60]I condemn what Gale said but using that team as an argument is extremely dumb considering that some of them are in platinum.
That being said I'm actually curios has there ever been a female that wasn't mtf trans that did compete at the top level against males in a popular esport (not counting card games)? I've personally never heard of one so I'm interested. If not an actual scientific research needs to be done so we can actually determine if there are differences that cause men to be naturally better at games or it's just that most women aren't interested and the ones that are are a small minority. Until that happens we can't prove one way or the other.
"Side note: they are not "females". They are women. The word female denies them their humanity. Dogs and horses are female. However, human females have the distinction of having their own word that implies humanity."
Your whole comment made complete sense until you added the side note, does the word male also deny men of their humanity?
I didn't search extensively but here are some
Now if you tell me any of the girls in this list are transgender you're gonna make me real sad (I cried when I learnt Scarlett is trans)
There could be more here but the list also counts trans
Babouh [#85]I didn't search extensively but here are some
- SC:BW had ToSsGirL competing with males
- Geguri
- The two girls from this great article (ok ok they play support but it still counts)
- was looking for female pros in smash : Fuwa, consistently beating good male players
- Kayane has a pretty good history in fighting games
- ~~Didn't know about Mystik but apparently she's successful ~~ edit : oops, she only won television show tournaments ! Got baited by esportearnings
Now if you tell me any of the girls in this list are transgender you're gonna make me real sad (I cried when I learnt Scarlett is trans)
There could be more here but the list also counts trans
The reason there aren't many women in eSports is because video games are, and always have been an inherently boy thing. Consoles have always been marketed to boys, and as the best Christmas/birthday gift you can get your son - those boys then learn about PC gaming and etc.
Hafficool [#88]what list
https://i.gyazo.com/2244ddc582d61bd320576d0578203f6a.png how i feel about certain users on overgg. ill giv u a good spot i promise
Guinea [#63]damn i liked u too
you got demoted
https://gyazo.com/6b4a5dcda3e192e5def76a690f53474a.png
There can only be one shitposter
penda [#91]To be honest everyone should be a feminist
no, no one should be a feminist, equality should just be the basic standard
Loco [#92]no, no one should be a feminist, equality should just be the basic standard
but right now its not, so everyone should be a feminist
Guinea [#89]https://i.gyazo.com/2244ddc582d61bd320576d0578203f6a.png how i feel about certain users on overgg. ill giv u a good spot i promise
what the heck u thought the league of anti-shitpost assassins was real when i am one of the biggest shitposters here????
Clickbait [#94]what the heck u thought the league of anti-shitpost assassins was real when i am one of the biggest shitposters here????
Can't trust nobody. Always got my eyes peeled lookin out for a downfrag bot.
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