3rd time this season... Go LH!!

Damn son Rogue never stood a chance

Just 25 days till the finals fam! Thanks Blizz.

This is a battle of titans, one of the strongest tank/support cores vs one of the strongest dps/offensive units.

I think victory in this match will depend on how well Void can protect his supports vs how well LH deals with the KDP dps. If Void gets taken out like Meko and DongHyun did LH has a very good chance of winning this but if KDP is able to take down Jehong consistently before they take too many casualties they could pull away with it.

I do feel like the longer series format does favor LH, because of their iron mental nuts you can never fully count them out, but I think KDP will go up first still with the possibility of LH bringing it back.

My current attempt at map score though things could very well change because...25 DAYS MAN:

LH 3-4 KDP

Who do I want to win? LH for sure.

The ultimate out of 3 series where they are both 1-1. The last match to decide who is the best team in the world. HYPE AF YO...but i wonder how much meta will change in (almost) a month tho.

why ogn makes every match so far away in time from each other? 25 days till the final?? wth

Wake me up in a month

Kanden [#5]

why ogn makes every match so far away in time from each other? 25 days till the final?? wth

Not OGN's decision. It's been moved for the Overwatch World Cup. I'm guessing they originally would have played the final on Friday July 14th (instead of Tuesday July 11th) or else I don't quite understand why they would have needed to move it.

The World Cup Shanghai groups play from July 14th to July 16th. I'm assuming the Friday slot because it's a better time to play the grand finals than a Tuesday.

I think it'll be 4-3, winner will be decided by whether Zunba or Void plays better. KDP win DPS battle, LH win Support battle, it comes down to tanks.

4-2 KDP.

With this long to prepare I hope this ends up going all the way...with a LH victory in the end.

KuroiRyuu9625 [#7]

Not OGN's decision. It's been moved for the Overwatch World Cup. I'm guessing they originally would have played the final on Friday July 14th (instead of Tuesday July 11th) or else I don't quite understand why they would have needed to move it.

The World Cup Shanghai groups play from July 14th to July 16th. I'm assuming the Friday slot because it's a better time to play the grand finals than a Tuesday.

but lh and kdp are both south korean and south korea plays in early august so it doesnt really make sense LUL

Kanden [#11]

but lh and kdp are both south korean and south korea plays in early august so it doesnt really make sense LUL

Blizz doesn't want to take viewership away from the OWC, l also think that APEX is much more popular than you give it credit and it's appeal isn't limited to just Korean viewers. In addition, the time slot of this match would have clashed with the Shanghai matches.

head - LH
heart - KDP - i want to see them win

close game either way

It is kinda hard to believe that kongdoo panthera maid it in to the finals

LH 4-3 KDP

Reverse sweep like last season

Kdp gonna win. The world cup is gonna make LH weaker than before as 3players from their team is on it.

Just a bit over 4 days? It's happening ladies and gents. And you can bet your sexy buns that I'm waking up at 5:00 eastern for this.

With so long to prepare for this game... The winner shall be the team with the most surprise strategies!

Apparently the South korean World cup team has found the ultimate,perfect anti-dive comp and they used said strat to destroy KDU yesterday and might i add,it was also the same comp the Miraculous Youngsters used to defeat Runaway and KDU and they might plan to use that against KDP and LH still has their sombra strats that they have been using to demolish teams

victococoblazin [#19]

Apparently the South korean World cup team has found the ultimate,perfect anti-dive comp and they used said strat to destroy KDU yesterday and might i add,it was also the same comp the Miraculous Youngsters used to defeat Runaway and KDU and they might plan to use that against KDP and LH still has their sombra strats that they have been using to demolish teams

Using the strat against tier 2 teams vs using it on KDP isnt the same thing tho. Also fissure reinhardt is better than miro reinhardt. I feel like Kdp will be using this strat.

Toks [#20]

Using the strat against tier 2 teams vs using it on KDP isnt the same thing tho. Also fissure reinhardt is better than miro reinhardt. I feel like Kdp will be using this strat.

Agreed, and KDP's dive is very different from AFB's. I do think LH have a clear path to victory if they can take advantage of KDP's weaker backline, but that's assuming a few things:

1. They can get past Void
2. Rascal/Bridring haven't kill their backline already

I'm biased towards LH, but I think they can do it. I'm just hoping for a high octane, almost, heart attack inducing game that goes all the way...with a win by LH in the end, cause bias.

Think the time has come for hype! I'm expecting a good match though with the lack of Korean T1 play in the past month or so anything could really happen here. I'll give the edge to Lunatic-Hai solely based on the fact that they have more experience on the big stage and have shown consistency in the past. Could easily see this one going to the last match possible, 4-3 either way. GL to both sides!

One thing I did realize is if something different is brought out, KDP can't seem to react to it. They have to be prepared and did their homework to actually win their opponent(vs mighty Aod they didnt do that). so if lunatic hai brings out a crazy strat right out of their asses, then i can potentially seeing this being 4-0 LH. so many what ifs, start already.

LH will win, they always bring it when they need to

Some insight from a few Koreans Pros:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6ptclr/pro_players_analysis_of_lh_vs_kdp/

Copy Paste from OP's (hyeons) translation:

Some highlights: (Gambler, Arhan, DNCE)

(Gambler, you just talked about LH breaking your guys' spirits and composure. What was the reason for this?)

G: LH's Sombra. (EscA) He completely left us ablaze. I'm not sad, though, because I'm not a pro anymore!

(What style would you say KDP?)

G: A typical DPS-Tank carry team. Like us (LW), or rather what used to be us (ㅠㅠ)

(Arhan, in the finals there are Birdring, Rascal, and Gido who have shown Genjis. Are you better than them?)

A: Yes. I'm better. I somewhat respect Birdring's Genji.

(Do you feel like KDP stole Birdring?)

D: Not really. We knew beforehand, and it was all agreed on.

(A survey of the teams' strengths)

Host: We have created a composite report from pro players, coaches, and staff on the comparison between LH and KDP's strengths. We have found that KDP has been rated higher in terms of mechanics, and much higher in terms of hero pool. LH is higher in terms of strategy, teamwork, crisis aversion, and composure.

LH's DPS have been rated SIGNIFICANTLY lower than KDP's (one point lower than KDP on an out of a five point scale) However, the heal+tank have similar disparities in LH's favor.

Overall, the survey has shown that 58% of relevant individuals in the field expect LH to win. The reasons:

Teamwork that negates any difference in mechanical ability, crisis aversion ability that can deal with KDP's large hero pool, the world's best healers, previous experience, and huge skill in maps other than control, and team protection and strategy.

For those that expect KDP to win:

Best DPS in the world, they have the ability to make unexpected plays, they beat LW Blue in a more convincing manner than LH, they break strategy through their superior mechanics, and they can abuse Gido's lack of experience.

In closing, Arhan and Gambler expected LH to win, while DNCE expected KDP to win.

Less than 48 hours boyz and girlz. Be right back while I make a trip to Korea to get fluent before then. The Hype Is Real.

I might actually stay up to watch this one instead of just looking at the results afterward,this match gonna be PogChamp i hope

victococoblazin [#27]

I might actually stay up to watch this one instead of just looking at the results afterward,this match gonna be PogChamp i hope

I'm going to bed early Friday, I've got 3 alarms set for Saturday morning. This is happening.

1 DAY LEFT CMON

I made a prediction earlier of it being 4:3 to whoever's tanks play better but I'm leaning toward KDP, also does anyone know if WhereRU is playing?

Okay, I'm probably going to try to get up to watch this. What time will the action actually start? I want to get as much sleep as I can!

BigBad01 [#31]

Okay, I'm probably going to try to get up to watch this. What time will the action actually start? I want to get as much sleep as I can!

Usually about 15min after the hour so you should be relatively safe tuning in at 5:15 am EDT, but do you really want to miss the pre-game bants tho?

KuroiRyuu9625 [#32]

Usually about 15min after the hour so you should be relatively safe tuning in at 5:15 am EDT, but do you really want to miss the pre-game bants tho?

At 5 am, yeah I want those extra 15 minutes! :)

On the one side we have Koreans and on the other side we have koreans with sailor suits this is gonna be tuff

t-23-11 [#34]

On the one side we have Koreans and on the other side we have koreans with sailor suits this is gonna be tuff

gotta love em cute boy sailor suits man KappaPride

To think that Apex S3 started with LH vs KDP and now is gonna end with LH vs KDP. LETS GO BOISS. Less than 10hrs.

HYPE IT UP 7 HOURS

LETS GO KDP SwiftRage

Great piece about birdring and KDP's journey to where they are now: http://es.pn/2v6y3hl

I believe in the panthera boys!

kdp will take it

HYPE HYPE HYPE!!!

Got trolled by over.gg and woke up an hour early for this.

4mation [#42]

Got trolled by over.gg and woke up an hour early for this.

I think it was delayed actually.

Are these teams better than the best EU/NA teams ?
I don't really follow OW competitive scene so I have no idea who are these 2 korean teams.
Anyway, I'll watch this match and I'm sure I'll learn lots of stuff from them.

Rogue and Envy, the 2 best teams in the west were in this tournament. Rogue lost to both of them in the groups, Envy lost 4-0 to panthera in the semis.

@Diplomatt damn that's impressive, didn't expect that. Thanks.

AMDroot [#46]

@Diplomatt damn that's impressive, didn't expect that. Thanks.

envy havent realy cared (specialy taimou) about this tournament after group stage and rogue got suprised in my opinion (according to korean teams they were wining all the scrims in korea)

remiska [#47]

envy havent realy cared (specialy taimou) about this tournament after group stage and rogue got suprised in my opinion (according to korean teams they were wining all the scrims in korea)

Pretty sure nV cared about winning up until they lost to KDP in the Semis, I can believe that they didn't afterwards though.

And yeah, Rogue did get surprised, LH and KDP pretty much just prepared for them and delt with them pretty effectively. I think they might have been able to get passed KDP if they have played them first.

On another note, OGN production is God Like. LET THE BLOOD BATH BEGIN!

LUNATIC HAI FIGHTING!! KONGDOO PANTHERA FIGHTING!!

KuroiRyuu9625 [#48]

Pretty sure nV cared about winning up until they lost to KDP in the Semis, I can believe that they didn't afterwards though.

And yeah, Rogue did get surprised, LH and KDP pretty much just prepared for them and delt with them pretty effectively. I think they might have been able to get passed KDP if they have played them first.

On another note, OGN production is God Like. LET THE BLOOD BATH BEGIN!

LUNATIC HAI FIGHTING!! KONGDOO PANTHERA FIGHTING!!

taimou could not care less even before they got to semis just go see his tweets and he is star dps of envy so they knew they wouldnt win

remiska [#49]

taimou could not care less even before they got to semis just go see his tweets and he is star dps of envy so they knew they wouldnt win

I remember his tweets, but I associated them with him feeling the burn out more than him not caring about winning. They bounced back against X6 and the first two maps against KDP were close. The last two maps not su much so at that point I would believe it if you told me they had somewhat given up.

I know that he mentioned not having wanted to go back to Korea at all for Season 3 but agreeing to go for the rest of the team. though situation to be in for sure.

KuroiRyuu9625 [#50]

I remember his tweets, but I associated them with him feeling the burn out more than him not caring about winning. They bounced back against X6 and the first two maps against KDP were close. The last two maps not su much so at that point I would believe it if you told me they had somewhat given up.

I know that he mentioned not having wanted to go back to Korea at all for Season 3 but agreeing to go for the rest of the team. though situation to be in for sure.

" him feeling the burn out more than him not caring about winning" when you feel burn out you dont care about wining

Are they playing in the newest patch?

tetuan [#52]

Are they playing in the newest patch?

nope

tetuan [#52]

Are they playing in the newest patch?

Yes

Derpwaffle21 [#54]

Yes

apex is never played on the newest patch

They are playing on the 1.12 Horizon patch, where McCree Ult is buffed, Reaper gets life steal, and everyone laments about Roadhog.

sandshrewz [#56]

They are playing on the 1.12 Horizon patch, where McCree Ult is buffed, Reaper gets life steal, and everyone laments about Roadhog.

this
there are no changes to zarya rein and so on

can you imagine Rogue refusing the participate in the APEX Idol singing contest? :D

"fuck these media days"

Admirable [#58]

can you imagine Rogue refusing the participate in the APEX Idol singing contest? :D

"fuck these media days"

The real reason why they didn't make it out of group stage.

remiska [#51]

" him feeling the burn out more than him not caring about winning" when you feel burn out you dont care about wining

One can be burnt out and still have the desire to win though. I guess it depends on the person and their level of fatigue tolerance. It's too bad foreign teams couldn't have better accommodations, like a team house or such. Costly, but probably much much better than being stuck in a hotel for months on end.

At least they'll always have the bragging rights of winning the first one.

Anubis is lit PogChamp

THIS GAME IS NUTS

Kaeru [#43]

I think it was delayed actually.

Nope, TISrobin confirms that the time hasn't changed.

Admirable [#61]

Anubis is lit PogChamp

LH kinda screwed themselves over on KDP's 2nd point take lol, not sure what they were all doing in that room off the point but instant disadvantage. I think they may have been able to hold if not for all the deaths in there.

sandshrewz [#56]

They are playing on the 1.12 Horizon patch, where McCree Ult is buffed, Reaper gets life steal, and everyone laments about Roadhog.

Thanks.

time for lunatic hai to pick up a propper dps duo like sbb and fl0w3r and start dominating the world .
aimwise this 2 dps players hold them back so hard in my opinion .

My heart can't take this...

Can't watch the stream so F5 BOYS!

What a serie ! Wow this match is the best against the best .

SK teams are so strong !

lowpriorityallday [#66]

time for lunatic hai to pick up a propper dps duo like sbb and fl0w3r and start dominating the world .
aimwise this 2 dps players hold them back so hard in my opinion .

well, they are still winning, so imagine what they would do with a propper aiming dps duo :D

ryu on soilder PogChamp

KuroiRyuu9625 [#67]

My heart can't take this...

This is the APEX Finals we've needed all along.

too many maps for over.gg

monkaS

yeah RIP site layout

Is it a site glitch or a silent protest against bo7s? You decide.

Here's an impromptu inspect element trick for those who want to navigate the maps. Right click the map bar -> Inspect Element.

Under the class .match-switches, add overflow-x: auto;

Should let you scroll through maps.

unexpectedly, the match has lasted so long .....................

Looks fine to me http://owcdn.net/img/597c8f8e5f5bf.png

^___________________________________________________________________________________________________________^

http://imgur.com/a/nv7r4

How farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr can we go

Here's a CSS fix for the map switch box for anyone who just wants to quickly inspect the page or using an addon called Stylish for Chrome and Firefox.

.match-switches {
    overflow-x: auto;
    overflow-y: hidden;
  }

it doesnt for me, and it shouldnt require tweaks by user to see maps
pls fix

sandshrewz [#76]

Here's an impromptu inspect element trick for those who want to navigate the maps. Right click the map bar -> Inspect Element.

Under the class .match-switches, add overflow-x: auto;

Should let you scroll through maps.

Damn, I was too slow, aha.

remiska [#81]

it doesnt for me, and it shouldnt require tweaks by user to see maps
pls fix

I thought you were the new owner of over.gg :D

Admirable [#83]

I thought you were the new owner of over.gg :D

and i order you my minions to fix it ;) owner doesnt need to work

i dont actualy care coz im watching stream but its a bug even if not for everyone (maybe add 2nd row and put next maps there?)

rip match page

OH MY FUCKING GOD. THE ULTIMATE C9 MOMENT!!!

I swear, if this goes into another tie-breaker

KuroiRyuu9625 [#86]

OH MY FUCKING GOD. THE ULTIMATE C9 MOMENT!!!

I hope this moment would not coast them the title and the 50 000usd between 1st and 2nd place xD

LUNATIC FUCKING HAI FIGHTING!!!!!!!

ggs could have been anyones game

gg

KuroiRyuu9625 [#89]

LUNATIC FUCKING HAI FIGHTING!!!!!!!

Amazing ggs. KR Overwatch. Insane.

LH always seem to clutch up in the finals

At the end the tension was so intense, Korea you rocks !

Long live to Overwatch :3 <3

Proud of those guys, they deserve it 100%

Peak OW! Thank you to both LH and KDP, and congrats to LH and especially the most bullied player in OW Esca.

After rewatching it,LH just seems to have the upperhand in Payload/hybrid maps and LH has mastered eichenwalde

victococoblazin [#97]

After rewatching it,LH just seems to have the upperhand in Payload/hybrid maps and LH has mastered eichenwalde

I feel like they also could have won both assault maps but in each of the final rounds they got picked off early and were never able to recover.

The best game of Overwatch so far imo.
All of them were AMAZING, but ryujehong, Tobi, and Birdring were just unbelievable.

Watched it late after work but this will easily go down as one of the greatest matches in Overwatch history.

Brought this post to a 3rd page. Respect and bow down to me.

Pixelfish [#101]

Brought this post to a 3rd page. Respect and bow down to me.

never, us muricans are free and bow to nobody
Kappa

I feel like they also could have won both assault maps but in each of the final rounds they got picked off early and were never able to recover.

Yeah, imagine what woud've happened had KDP barely gotten a draw on Numbani as well. I mean being slightly worse on 2cp and somehow getting a draw both times and then barely getting a draw on 1 out of 4 payload maps, but winning the whole thing through tiebreakers does not mean you're the better team. It just means you're a slightly worse team that's really good on control. I really couddn't have taken this seriously had they won they finals simply by going 4-0 in control maps, 5-0 in rounds on control.

Yes, KDP are definitely the team closest to LH, but you shouldn't be able to abuse the tournament system so hard that you can win the finals by being really good on 2 maps (Nepal & Lijiang Tower), drawing on 2cp and being almost as good as the other team on 1 map.

Setsul [#103]

I feel like they also could have won both assault maps but in each of the final rounds they got picked off early and were never able to recover.

Yeah, imagine what woud've happened had KDP barely gotten a draw on Numbani as well. I mean being slightly worse on 2cp and somehow getting a draw both times and then barely getting a draw on 1 out of 4 payload maps, but winning the whole thing through tiebreakers does not mean you're the better team. It just means you're a slightly worse team that's really good on control. I really couddn't have taken this seriously had they won they finals simply by going 4-0 in control maps, 5-0 in rounds on control.

Yes, KDP are definitely the team closest to LH, but you shouldn't be able to abuse the tournament system so hard that you can win the finals by being really good on 2 maps (Nepal & Lijiang Tower), drawing on 2cp and being almost as good as the other team on 1 map.

Abusing the tournament system ?! They said it themselves, LH was better on payload/hybrid so they won the title.
If they got the draw twice in a row in 2cp, it simply means they're both playing at a really high and equal level. Breaking tied maps is biased towards the better control team for sure, but this ain't no tax office, I don't know about abusing the system...

All in all great game. Gido stepped up huge and Esca, even the meme he is, is probably one of the best team players out there. Tank and support play outshining KDP was the decider, LH got the best core 4 in those slots.

And Tobi is a nut.

I'm not saying they did it on purpose, they definitely practiced payload/hybrid, it's just one of the weirder parts of the APEX system that you could in theory win a match by only winning a single type of map.

I could imagine the memes had KDP won this by "only winning control".

I mean they have won payload/hybrid against LH before, it just seems that in the final LH consistently outplayed them (pls nerf sombra) and the only reason that it's a 4-3 (deserved imho, considering how close all maps were) instead of 4-1 were 2cp draws on top of KDP being that much better on control.

So what I meant was it would've been really weird had KDP won by being 97% as good as LH on escort, but never winning those maps, 98% as good on hybrid, but only drawing one of them and 99% as good on assault, always drawing on those, with the actual wins being a result of some really good control play afterwards.
I'm glad it worked out the way it did, fair scoreline, but it really started looking absurd. "Oh another draw, free win for KDP I guess". Because I'm willing to take any bet had they not made that positioning mistake on Numbani and held then the decider would've gone their way.

Setsul [#105]

I'm not saying they did it on purpose, they definitely practiced payload/hybrid, it's just one of the weirder parts of the APEX system that you could in theory win a match by only winning a single type of map.

I could imagine the memes had KDP won this by "only winning control".

I mean they have won payload/hybrid against LH before, it just seems that in the final LH consistently outplayed them (pls nerf sombra) and the only reason that it's a 4-3 (deserved imho, considering how close all maps were) instead of 4-1 were 2cp draws on top of KDP being that much better on control.

So what I meant was it would've been really weird had KDP won by being 97% as good as LH on escort, but never winning those maps, 98% as good on hybrid, but only drawing one of them and 99% as good on assault, always drawing on those, with the actual wins being a result of some really good control play afterwards.
I'm glad it worked out the way it did, fair scoreline, but it really started looking absurd. "Oh another draw, free win for KDP I guess". Because I'm willing to take any bet had they not made that positioning mistake on Numbani and held then the decider would've gone their way.

I agree 100% on the fact that they need to change how tie breakers work, and it's not just APEX, every tournament has BO1 control as their TB game mode nowadays.

And I'm not saying it is in this case, but this might actually be a legitimate strategy for any team:
We're better on control and assault, let's go for 1 win on payload or hybrid and we take the series. Crazier things happened in sports/esports. It's part of the game, a less 'fair' and enjoyable game but it is.

On a side note, I would love seeing sudden death for payload and assault instead. One offense for each, if both teams cap, faster time wins; if noone caps, progress bar or they go again.

And finally, yes Sombra's ult charge is busted. But even though EscA isn't as mechanically gifted as other players, he runs it like clockwork, broke so many teams this season.

Exactly, now you get it. KDP didn't run that strategy, but someone might try. Depending on the tournament it might be possible to force a pick of one of two hybrid/payload maps that you're either really good at or able to draw on.

Honestly any tiebreaker that uses a different map just invalidates the map pick. Sudden death like you propose it would essentially be just another round. The other options would be simply keeping the draw as is (after all the teams have played on the same level for quite a while, awarding the win based on the performance during a much shorter time seems unfair) and either adding another map to the match or counting it as a win for both teams to keep the match time roughly the same (draws are rarely double full holds, mostly rather long matches).

And yes, either change the health pack respawn time (x4 is ridiculous, even x2 would still be quite strong) or adjust the ult charge/heal ratio like for all other healers or both.

I can't remember who said it but the quote was roughly "they managed to turn EMP into a cooldown".
Interestingly enough the reason LH picked KDU in APEX season 1 was that they had a strategy built around Sombra to counter triple tank, which was the only thing KDU ran (and were quite good at it). Then Sombra got banned two days before the match and LH got 3-0'd. They really like using Sombra.

Keeping the draw wouldn't work for elimination rounds, and the only issue with adding a map is time, cause the organisers need to consider worst case scenario.
But it was just my take on it, I'm sure there are other alternatives that would fit the bill quite well.

And yes EMP in fact is a cooldown, scientifically proven by almost every team in the BEAT Invitational earlier this month.

Do you mean bo1 with "elimination rounds"?

Keeping the draw works. Bo1 control deciders also take time. Games can in theory and have gone to 6-7 or even 8-9. 3-3 or 4-4 + another map might be shorter than that.

Counting a draw as a win doesn't add time. It leads to weird things in the 4 map matches Blizzard loves, but otherwise it works fine for anything except for a bo1 and in that case you'd have to play a second map as decider anyway.

If you counted draws as half a win for each team LH would have won after Dorado. Which is honestly fair given that they'd only lost 4 control rounds up until that point, and won three payload/hybrid maps. I also agree that the current tiebreaker system is incredibly dodgy and needs to be changed.

BO1 control takes at most 4 minutes from start to finish, that's way less (half at best) than what another map would mean time wise.
You say 3-3 or 4-4 + another map but logically the extra map will either be control or pure payload, since they'll want to avoid another draw (which is what I meant by considering worst case scenario). This ends up restricting the map pool again.

The BO4 you speak of are group stage games where draws are fine, I was talking about round of 16th, 8th, quarterfinals and so on, if any, where you need a winner.

I guess we have different views on the matter, but we do agree that BO1 decider is not the fairest of options as it stands now.