https://twitter.com/rogue_akm/status/916521638526455808
Edit: New tweet https://twitter.com/rogue_akm/status/916575920407769089
robokun87 [#3]Wait wtf? something bad mustv'e happened or he's turned toxic af if he ain't even being considered as a sub for Rogue, sure bring in a new face or two I feel they need it but to drop AKM completely from OWL? wonder who else might be getting dropped then.
Naaa just they are taking Na players for the most. They thinks they can have more fanbasership leavung behind the real good players taking in knowed and overrated players...
How to create a top tier OWL team: Buy both Rogue & GamersOrigin
How to be an OWL GM: Do literally anything except that
I am starting to understand why people behind the scenes are saying some OWL teams are going to be a mess with high turnover. I'm plat and I just listed a way to create an amazing team. Kraft hit me up pls
robokun87 [#3]Wait wtf? something bad mustv'e happened or he's turned toxic af if he ain't even being considered as a sub for Rogue, sure bring in a new face or two I feel they need it but to drop AKM completely from OWL? wonder who else might be getting dropped then.
rogue is not in owl
spiderlily [#5]How to create a top tier OWL team: Buy both Rogue & GamersOrigin
How to be an OWL GM: Do literally anything except thatI am starting to understand why people behind the scenes are saying some OWL teams are going to be a mess with high turnover. I'm plat and I just listed a way to create an amazing team. Kraft hit me up pls
If things were only as simple as you talk about, everyone would do it.
majkel1893 [#8]back to quake where the developers and owners of their own game are more like friends and family, not money hungry assholes. just like talespin said "its not what you know, its who you know"
The exact problem with S1 OWL is the fact that people are what you call "friends and family".
Its indeed sad to see a Player like him not getting an OWL spot, but besides the "politics" there is a General bias towards NA Players because of things like Fanbases in NA aswell as eventual Problems with Europeans getting VISA/living in NA and all that stuff. Anyways we can just hope that in Season 2 a lot more Europeans get a shot^^
Xeon [#13]Its indeed sad to see a Player like him not getting an OWL spot, but besides the "politics" there is a General bias towards NA Players because of things like Fanbases in NA aswell as eventual Problems with Europeans getting VISA/living in NA and all that stuff. Anyways we can just hope that in Season 2 a lot more Europeans get a shot^^
The entire Rogue team lives here (Vegas), so there are no excuses with visas etc.
Jadegarad [#11]The exact problem with S1 OWL is the fact that people are what you call "friends and family".
The problem is blizzard charging a ridiculous amount of money for a spot in a league with a game that doesn't even exist 2 years and has less viewers than some games that dont even have esport status on tournament day's.
the bigger they are, the harder they fall i can already assure you 100% that OWL Season2 will be 100% different to what they want it to be for the first season.
trashplayer [#12]the teams outside OWL are more stacked than the actual OWL Teams.
How does one even come up with this ? We only know of 3-4 rosters out of 12, which are not even complete given what has been announced.
Also sad for aKm, I think this is the downfall of bringing a full french (one nationality in general) roster to NA and perhaps didn't make that exposure a player of his caliber would want in this situation happen. Only 76 that I think of better than him worldwide would be Dafran. Top tier hitscan all around.
It'll be a long year for some talented players sadly.
majkel1893 [#15]The problem is blizzard charging a ridiculous amount of money for a spot in a league with a game that doesn't even exist 2 years and has less viewers than some games that dont even have esport status on tournament day's.
the bigger they are, the harder they fall i can already assure you 100% that OWL Season2 will be 100% different to what they want it to be for the first season.
this
also there is this super bias towards na, (3 spots only outside us) and blizzard seems to think na is some esports center and that so many people in usa care about it
but the truth is there are much more viewers and better players in both eu and asia
remiska [#17]this
also there is this super bias towards na, (3 spots only outside us) and blizzard seems to think na is some esports center and that so many people in usa care about it
but the truth is there are much more viewers and better players in both eu and asia
On the same note there are apparently more investors willing to drop 20 million in the US than anywhere else. I doubt blizz only targeted US investors when their map showed so many cities worldwide.
darkcvc [#18]On the same note there are apparently more investors willing to drop 20 million in the US than anywhere else. I doubt blizz only targeted US investors when their map showed so many cities worldwide.
investors? yes
viewers and players? no
just look at cs go, pretty much every top team is from na or cis organization but are full eu rosters
darkcvc [#14]The entire Rogue team lives here (Vegas), so there are no excuses with visas etc.
True, my bad (but maybe a reason for the rest of Europe)
poi98 [#21]Soon and Unkoe are probablong going for the LA immortals.....anyway i fucking(sorry for the word) hate that streamers and well knowed players (not good but knowed like Danthe xQc and others) are taking spot of who deserve it....is the things that is making me angry as f
Danteh and xQc are really good at what they do though.
I understand that people might not like them and others personality-wise, completely fair, but can't take away that they're talented players.
I think Soon and Unkoe will be the only survivors of the Rogue break up too, which is kinda sad tbh cause I liked Rogue.
The OWL is not pushing overwatch further, but most likely it's going to drag it down but hey that's just my opinion.
I just can't understand what they are thinking when they make leagues like that after mayb having 1- 2 minor tournaments with a total of 250k+ total prize pool and now they already think they can go NBA, NFL style :O
I just can't see it working out like this.
poi98 [#21]Soon and Unkoe are probablong going for the LA immortals.....anyway i fucking(sorry for the word) hate that streamers and well knowed players (not good but knowed like Danthe xQc and others) are taking spot of who deserve it....is the things that is making me angry as f
well but thats not their fault.
its blizzards fault charging so much for a spot.
im 100 sure if players like AKM would be without a team and didnt had a ridicilous buyout fee (probably) , they could easily be in OWL.
paolodicanio [#24]well but thats not their fault.
its blizzards fault charging so much for a spot.
im 100 sure if players like AKM would be without a team and didnt had a ridicilous buyout fee (probably) , they could easily be in OWL.
you seriously think its because of buyout fee?
they just droped 20 milion on spot in a game that might not have any future buyout fee is not a problem its just the fact that for some reason they think na players will bring more viewers even in they will be shit
remiska [#25]you seriously think its because of buyout fee?
they just droped 20 milion on spot in a game that might not have any future buyout fee is not a problem its just the fact that for some reason they think na players will bring more viewers even in they will be shit
Not saying it is, but might be a reason. Especially in the hitscan role, there are many players to chose from.
And an org dropping 20 mil on a spot doesn't mean they have green light to spend left and right. Everything's on a budget in businesses. Housing, player and staff salaries, everyday life, etc.
So if a player like aKm has a buyout fee (which he most likely has), some orgs might think it's better to pick a 'downgrade' for free or at a cheaper price.
I see a lot of people saying teams bring in who they know, but isn't that how it works everywhere, honestly ? Networking and public image (not talking about being the 'good nice guy' here) are also very important.
Involv3r [#22]Danteh and xQc are really good at what they do though.
I understand that people might not like them and others personality-wise, completely fair, but can't take away that they're talented players.I think Soon and Unkoe will be the only survivors of the Rogue break up too, which is kinda sad tbh cause I liked Rogue.
Yea you are right! I make the angry talk for me sorry! Anyway xQc and Danthe are good players and they deserves the spot for making it with viewership more than real ability(yes i think they are overrated but not bad players)
poi98 [#27]Yea you are right! I make the angry talk for me sorry! Anyway xQc and Danthe are good players and they deserves the spot for making it with viewership more than real ability(yes i think they are overrated but not bad players)
be carefull poi, saying that some popular player is overrated is gona get you downvoted
poi98 [#27]Yea you are right! I make the angry talk for me sorry! Anyway xQc and Danthe are good players and they deserves the spot for making it with viewership more than real ability(yes i think they are overrated but not bad players)
You don't need to apologize my friend, it's an understandable opinion. Also out of curiosity, if you were to make a shortlist of people not in OWL to replace them, who'd be on it ?
remiska [#28]be carefull poi, saying that some popular player is overrated is gona get you downvoted
I don't downvote formulated opinions, I actually enjoy discussing topics with people who have different points of view.
I understand the idea of wanting NA players for teams in the first season of OWL, but not signing one of the 3 best DPS players in the west, and arguably the best hitscan player in the world, is madness. I'm more baffled by the fact that he's not been picked up by Misfits, as splitting AKM and Tviq up was the biggest mistake western Overwatch has ever made.
Involv3r [#29]You don't need to apologize my friend, it's an understandable opinion. Also out of curiosity, if you were to make a shortlist of people not in OWL to replace them, who'd be on it ?
I think xQc has a big problem called rein. If he is on a team he need to have a sub good with rein( a ticket xQc skipjack wouldnt be that bad even if i am not a lover of the german tank, but he is good). But also with wiston i think tonic/mowassa/crhisfTer(just some example) are much better than xQc one. Talking about danthe is more difficult cause he is a sort of hitscan who can plays 3 differents roles but no one at a really high level( sombra flex tracer). As a sub i can say he is ok but for sure for the first months he will play as holder and also seeing some leaks seems like he will be an holder. Players flexible better than him are like Dante/Neptuno/Toxxiken(a flexible underrated god imho)/Unfixed(not really amazing on flex but he is at danthe's level and his soldier is better than danthe ones anyway i dont think unficed right now is really OWL worthy...but more than danthe yes)/snillo(he already play flex if i am not wrong)/twoeasy....(and others like fisher etc...). Anyway my problem is that i am for a mwritocracy of skill and seeing idiot people talk about some streamers and ladder players like god (and they absolutely arent) make me really angry and my mind make me underrated that players just to return pair...so i am not sure about how much good i rated streamers(anyway i truly believed the players i nominated and more are better than the two ex Arc6 guys)
HipiMan444 [#32]I still don't understand why a team didn't just pick up Rogue. All the NA spots seem to be going to a mismatch of "meh" NA players who will be nowhere near the level of the top teams.
You and me both. I thought for sure there were two possibilities for my team:
1) Rogue would partner with some big investors and buy a slot
2) An org would sign up the entire roster and add a few pieces
I never even considered it an option that they would not be a team for OWL. This is the most dominant NA team in the course of OW, and I can't imagine contenders had that much of an impact on a team that has won together for so long.
I have been sitting and waiting for the report that someone would sign them all. Now it seems like I need to pick an OWL team a different way once they announce them.
I agree that his Rein wasn't at a top tier level in pro play, but his monkey was insane imo. Only tank I'll agree with you on as equally deserving to get an OWL spot is Christfer who is a beast, the other 3 I'll have to disagree with.
It's complicated to talk about meritocracy in a heavily team based game like OW, but it's safe to say that the Arc6 guys grinded the fuck out of this game to get where they got, especially knowing about their situation with Denial. Placed 3rd in their first OMM ever then won the next one, was quite impressive. Tonic and Mowzassa haven't won anything, Skipjack won DH 2016 but has been replaced a couple of times after the big EU roster shuffle (although I'd put Tonic above the other 2 just for his performance in Contenders S1).
There's also less exposure about the underground EU scene where some of these players come from so that might've hurt them too.
As for Dante and Neptuno, they don't fill the same heroes as Danteh so it's hard to compare them. Also there are plenty top tier flex/main supports LFT in NA only (which makes it easier for the orgs if they're already based in or from NA). Always thought Toxiken was a sick player, what happened to Dignitas was really unlucky as they had really strong players, but he has dropped off the radar for a while as well. Unfixed is just not on the same level for me tbh.
I'd love to see Snillo in OWL though, haven't heard of him before Contenders and he really popped off, but he really only played Tracer, so it's hard to gauge his hero pool just from that.
2easy is a weird case, I don't really know why he didn't get picked up, maybe orgs are afraid of his 'bad image' ? I always thought he was fine but maybe there are things going on that we don't know about. He definitely deserves to be in, just to spam LAN 2easy PogChamp every game.
I also wanna see Finnsi, that guy is a god.
On a side note, Danteh has picked up Tracer in one month between the 2 OMMs and popped off in May's. Even outplaying Sinatraa a few times who was, at the time, already considered one of the best Tracers in NA. Also played Genji, Sombra and Zarya really well.
Unfortunately, there are factors that can largely hinder one's purely based on skill merit for a spot (attitude in/outside the game, chemistry with other players, etc). I appreciate you sticking out for the EU boys though, it's kinda sad that S1 will be heavily NA oriented, but hopefully after a season or 2, scouting will develop and also some teams will be based in EU to create more opportunities for them.
poi98 [#33]I think xQc has a big problem called rein. If he is on a team he need to have a sub good with rein( a ticket xQc skipjack wouldnt be that bad even if i am not a lover of the german tank, but he is good). But also with wiston i think tonic/mowassa/crhisfTer(just some example) are much better than xQc one. Talking about danthe is more difficult cause he is a sort of hitscan who can plays 3 differents roles but no one at a really high level( sombra flex tracer). As a sub i can say he is ok but for sure for the first months he will play as holder and also seeing some leaks seems like he will be an holder. Players flexible better than him are like Dante/Neptuno/Toxxiken(a flexible underrated god imho)/Unfixed(not really amazing on flex but he is at danthe's level and his soldier is better than danthe ones anyway i dont think unficed right now is really OWL worthy...but more than danthe yes)/snillo(he already play flex if i am not wrong)/twoeasy....(and others like fisher etc...). Anyway my problem is that i am for a mwritocracy of skill and seeing idiot people talk about some streamers and ladder players like god (and they absolutely arent) make me really angry and my mind make me underrated that players just to return pair...so i am not sure about how much good i rated streamers(anyway i truly believed the players i nominated and more are better than the two ex Arc6 guys)
There's lots of EU players better than both xQc and Danteh who aren't signed, but as you rightly mentioned earlier, their popularity on stream makes people notice. Unless OWL rosters have someone properly qualified to be selecting talent, they'll be selecting players from NA with large followings, as that's the best known region in OW. xQc and Danteh (to a lesser extent) are renowned for being toxic and the way they act has built them their audience. They're definitely good players, but there's countless better options within EU who are unsigned. The problem is that most EU players don't have the audience that those in NA do, and so they can become very unknown if they don't compete for a lengthy period of time. It's a big problem for OWL season 1, and I really hope that for season 2 there's much greater integration of EU teams and EU players, as the region itself is second only to Korea.
Involv3r [#35]I agree that his Rein wasn't at a top tier level in pro play, but his monkey was insane imo. Only tank I'll agree with you on as equally deserving to get an OWL spot is Christfer who is a beast, the other 3 I'll have to disagree with.
It's complicated to talk about meritocracy in a heavily team based game like OW, but it's safe to say that the Arc6 guys grinded the fuck out of this game to get where they got, especially knowing about their situation with Denial. Placed 3rd in their first OMM ever then won the next one, was quite impressive. Tonic and Mowzassa haven't won anything, Skipjack won DH 2016 but has been replaced a couple of times after the big EU roster shuffle (although I'd put Tonic above the other 2 just for his performance in Contenders S1).
There's also less exposure about the underground EU scene where some of these players come from so that might've hurt them too.As for Dante and Neptuno, they don't fill the same heroes as Danteh so it's hard to compare them. Also there are plenty top tier flex/main supports LFT in NA only (which makes it easier for the orgs if they're already based in or from NA). Always thought Toxiken was a sick player, what happened to Dignitas was really unlucky as they had really strong players, but he has dropped off the radar for a while as well. Unfixed is just not on the same level for me tbh.
I'd love to see Snillo in OWL though, haven't heard of him before Contenders and he really popped off, but he really only played Tracer, so it's hard to gauge his hero pool just from that.
2easy is a weird case, I don't really know why he didn't get picked up, maybe orgs are afraid of his 'bad image' ? I always thought he was fine but maybe there are things going on that we don't know about. He definitely deserves to be in, just to spam LAN 2easy PogChamp every game.
I also wanna see Finnsi, that guy is a god.On a side note, Danteh has picked up Tracer in one month between the 2 OMMs and popped off in May's. Even outplaying Sinatraa a few times who was, at the time, already considered one of the best Tracers in NA. Also played Genji, Sombra and Zarya really well.
Unfortunately, there are factors that can largely hinder one's purely based on skill merit for a spot (attitude in/outside the game, chemistry with other players, etc). I appreciate you sticking out for the EU boys though, it's kinda sad that S1 will be heavily NA oriented, but hopefully after a season or 2, scouting will develop and also some teams will be based in EU to create more opportunities for them.
i hope too :)... anyway your point of view make me change a little bit idea about Danteh ( more open to see him play). He is not really a players who can be compared to others players really...becaouse he has a peculiar heropool who make him really flexible and players i was compered to him are all flexible even if not with the same hero we can say.
As you said i like too to talk with people who had a different opinion...so thank you for your thoughts :)
Winter [#36]There's lots of EU players better than both xQc and Danteh who aren't signed, but as you rightly mentioned earlier, their popularity on stream makes people notice. Unless OWL rosters have someone properly qualified to be selecting talent, they'll be selecting players from NA with large followings, as that's the best known region in OW. xQc and Danteh (to a lesser extent) are renowned for being toxic and the way they act has built them their audience. They're definitely good players, but there's countless better options within EU who are unsigned. The problem is that most EU players don't have the audience that those in NA do, and so they can become very unknown if they don't compete for a lengthy period of time. It's a big problem for OWL season 1, and I really hope that for season 2 there's much greater integration of EU teams and EU players, as the region itself is second only to Korea.
I agree like 100%. Finally some else who understand about the unkowed thing. i really hope things can turn on the right side. We will se how blizzard will manage license for tournaments!
Edit: Players like Snizzlenose mafu fisher skipjack destro are already been forgotten even without OWL. We also need to see how many players will seek a career without OWL S1. Probably the actually T2 players could become OWL future players thanks to their mentality ( they are not always with money but they always work hard to make it. This is the same reason why i want TwoEasy into OWL: he is unstoppable).
https://twitter.com/mattr0d/status/916673751630139397
It's a very unlucky situation.
Also, anytime Poi, always learn a big deal about the EU scene thanks to you.
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