It's so no one else can have him, i mean he's not bad, if they want to run a Dva and Zarya, and then maybe put Coolmatt on DPS (like soldier, when he was on FNATIC) and move Spree over to dva, besides, if dva ever falls out of the meta, or Coolmatt just needs a break or isn't doing too well, Spree can step in.

I mean, if they get FCT, SDB, and Joemister, along with Adam and Roolf as supports and move Adam more to the Mercy position rather then Lucio, it could work, but i don't know who else would fill out the roster, maybe 1 or 2 could go over to Boston, Carpe was rumored to be on LA gladiators, so maybe they go over there? I really don't know.

at like 2:50 ish

He was in the intro video for Seoul Dynasty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIuSJpIxbRY&t=68s%5C

OMG that skin, i don't even play Mccree and i want it so bad. I don't know why but the color scheme is so appealing to me, and the logo, it's actually so sick, the bull is actually 2 guns, it's so much cooler then the SF shock line. In my opinion, best one so far.

As for the roster, it's rather impressive, but, i mean, Clockwork? Really? I mean, even after Davin showed up at the Contenders LAN and out played Logix, and Clockwork was considered one of the weakest parts of FNRGFE. Other then that i really like it, Linkzr was considered one of the best Widows in the beta, so the hitscan is fine, also a monster on LAN and has a very solid Genji as well, Jake can play pretty much anything, i don't really see Mendo getting much play time, i would have prefered Buds or Mangachu over Mendo since they can be more specialized to that Junkrat/Pharah role

Other then that, the tanks and supports are very solid, i think they'll keep Bani as a Mercy specialist (ish, i don't know much about him) and keep Rawkus on that Zen and Ana role. I'm sad MESR isn't on an OWL roster and moved over to being a coach, i'm glad he's still staying in the scene. Very impressive tanks and supports, that's one thing that i really like about the roster, and something that many other rosters lack is a strong core. I think/hope they pick up another Hitscan specialist/Tracer Specialist because i really don't like how Clockwork stacks up against the other Tracers like Logix or EFFECT, i feel like Davin would at least stand a chance, if they got FCTFCTN they'd be hands down the strongest NA OWL roster next to Envy and could probably break into the top 6, even without FCT they could, but seriously, either Clockwork needs to step up his Tracer play, or they need to get a specialist and move him over to the generally hitscan.

Hyped for the Dallas vs Houston rivalry, not only are they in the same State, but i heard Optic and Envy had a rivalry in other sports, but EFFECT will destroy Clockwork in the Tracer vs Tracer battle, maybe Linkzr could hold his own against Taimou, and the Tanks and Supports could also out play the Dallas supports if they're having a good day, but i feel like Clockwork would drag the team down, but who knows, in my opinion, if any NA team could beat Dallas (aka not Seoul/London/Shanghai/NY etc.) then it's this team.

From what i've seen in the qualifiers, YaoYao feeds alot, i don't know if it's because the healers and tanks aren't on the same page, but it's been noticable, i don't know if the trades are good whenever he goes too deep, but that from what i noticed its probably their biggest weakness, the lack of synergy, it could really go either way though.

As long as Rawkus doesn't get picked when they run Sombra. It absolutly blew my mind how a Sombra with EMP can get picked by a Widow, i get it, nerves and all, obviously i haven't played in that environment, but everyone else on the team did fine. In EnvyUs vs Faze, the Contenders Season 1 final, on Anubis, he got picked twice, once on first once on second point, Envy won both of the fights after and took the map, if he played safer they could have taken the map which was pretty close, as for Jake, he is on an OWL team and he can really focus on the game and not really worry about the future.

#JusticeForReinforce

Yo holy crap i didn't even notice when putting this together i put J3sus and Gods on the same team PogChamp

Hit-scan: J3sus
Projectile: Gods
Tank Iremiix
Flex: Mangachu
Support: Adam
Flex Support: Roolf

Firstly with the DPS, because of the limited number of dps that fit in specific roles, i decided to add Mangachu as flex so that a few holes can be filled. The fact that Gods has a good Winston is a very good asset to the team, as well as his strong Hog and Dva. So, for example a comp they could run would be for a map like Oasis, on Garden and City Center, they can run:

J3sus: Tracer
Gods: Dva
Mangachu: Pharah
iremiix: Winston
Roolf: Zen
Adam: Mercy.

Then on University:

J3: Mccree
Gods: Winston/Hog
Mangachu: Junkrat
iremiix: Rein
Roolf: Zen
Adam: Mercy

I feel with Dva being more DPS based and Roolf and Adam playing together for so long (having peel synergy) Mangachu can be more free on D.va when playing with Roolf and Adam and having Gods on Genji.

Adam and Roolf are one of the strongest support duos RN, iremiix is arguably the strongest tank with Numlocked going to LA (rumored)

I think having Mangachu on flex pairs really well with Gods hero pool, Gods flexibility with the offtanks allows Mangachu the opportunity to play his off meta strats. Also, Mangachu's Zarya is one of the best in contenders. With Genji falling a bit out of the meta in APAC that also means he's not a must pick and Mangachu can flex to other dps. Not to mention this allows them to run triple dps, with that many threats, J3sus on Tracer, Gods on Genji and arguably the best Pharah, (top 3 easily, Canada even put him on it over Surefour) paired with the best Mercy in NA can be devastating, but, it's not the only thing they can run, having J3sus as experienced on all hitscan as he is makes him an asset when running Mccree Doomfist/Mccree Junkrat. Being able to run a strong triple tank as well can be good, with Mangachu on Zarya and Gods on Hog. It can work well, and if J3 adds Zarya to his hero pool which may not be too hard since he has the tracking down, running a Hanzo (Mangachu) with triple tank can be very strong.

So just to recap the comps they can run:

Probably the strongest Pharmecy in contenders
Standard Genji-Tracer dive
Junk-Mccree
that weird Wins-Rein thing Envy runs
triple tank
triple dps

probably a few i'm missing this is just off the top of my head.

If they enable Mangachu and Gods keeps up his strong consistent play, and J3 steps up (in my opinion he is up the level of Grim on Mccree/hitscan, from watching old Kingdom vs IMT matches), they can be a very successful team. Even if this roster isn't a reality, i hope Gods and Mangachu get on the same team, they would be sick teammates, their hero pools just work so well together.

If you can't beat them, buy them.

Pretty sure in the future each city will get their own arena, like a home, in each city, obviously it's going to be big when it starts, but it won't be anywhere near the NFL level where advertisers pay millions to just get a 30 second ad, obviously it will succeed but years into the future it will slowly go under the radar, but i can't argue with many of your points, we'll just have to see, i really hope it will succeed i'm a huge fan, and i love the game, but i don't have very high expectations in the long term.

Another one bites the dust, feelsbadman

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrWinghaven/status/922850430484385794

Yeah, but the viewers aren't loyal, after people got the skin from HOTS, 99% never played it again.

You don't get my point, people won't spend 2-3 hours watching OWL for a free basic recolor of a skin. They might once for their favorite hero, but they won't be loyal, like how after ppl went from OW to HOTS and 99% uninstalled and went back to playing OW and will never play hots again. There are a few ways Blizz can handle this

1) Give free basic recolors of the team you are watching

Pros: Easy to do, doesn't take long

Cons: People won't watch consistently and not multiple times

2) Spend tons of time making awesome skins

Pros: people will watch, repeatedly

Cons: its a lot of time to invest, takes away from events and in game content

3) Giving loot boxes/ gold loot box

Pros: some people will watch

Cons: some people won't do it because it's nothing unique, they can just play

4) nothing

Pros: nothing

Cons: nothing

My point is the actual live events, from what i understand, each city has their own arena so, if there's only one arena in Europe, and someone from Germany want to watch live, they're not going to drive that far, so Blizzard is missing out on their money, and all the merch for their teams they'd buy, they can just watch on Twitch for free instead, same thing for the other 3 continents, Australia, Africa, and South America, what about those fans? Blizz are missing a large market.

Basically, the cities are in pretty bad locations for fans who want to go to the events, and if the crowds don't fill up, then there's no point, sure, you get a portion from ads on Twitch, but that won't pay for a multimillion dollar project like this, even if they keep consistent 100k viewers.

I don't know where you live, but even if you live close to one of the cities, realistically how many times will you go to the events, lets for reference say they're 30$ a ticket, for example, sure, I'd go once just for the experience, but will you revisit? If so how many times? How far away is it? Etc. If you've seen a match, you've seen them all, you won't pay 30$ to go again, or at least the average fan and OW player won't.

Sure, you want to support your team, but it certainly won't have a viewership of dedicated fans like football, most adults (most) won't understand and won't invest in it. So if the main group you want to earn money from are 13-25, then if 13-18's parents aren't invested and don't care, they won't go to events consistently, also, if the meta gets stale, if there are no new heroes for 4 months, no new maps or game modes either, people will get bored and will stop paying to go and in like 10 years, the viewers will be scarce, except for the diehards, obviously they'll be there, even someone who doesn't know/like football can go and enjoy it, i don't know if it'll be the same way with OW.

Of course i have faith in Blizzard, but there are alot of ways this could go wrong if they don't handle it perfectly. If it isn't a huge success, other people or sponsors or teams won't invest, then viewers won't watch, it can all crash down if we don't succeed in season 1. Obviously they'll make money, but i don't know if it'll be that big of a success.

Well, if the world cup gets an average of 30,000 viewers from all around the world, then European viewership is screwed, since, you know, they have one OWL city in the entire continent.

As for Korea and China, apex gets their stadiums filled pretty well, i don't think Korean and Chinese viewership will be an issue, especially since China has such a huge population.

Lastly, America, with 9 OWL teams, two of which are based in Los Angeles, which already cuts down on viewership. I get Seagull is popular, but are you really going to drive all the way to Dallas just to watch him play? I live near Miami, so i may go to an event durring the summer, but right now i have no idea where the stadium is or when it opens or anything really.

Not to mention it's literally killing most of the scene, how many people have retired in the past few months compared to the entire past year? MESR, TwoEasy, Luna, Curious, that's off the top of my head, compared to like what? One? Gingerpop?

Also, who's going to say "OMG i love the rivalry between LA and LA" i get they'll have different names, but no other major sport does this, it's confusing, and since we have 4 on the east coast, two in the south, and 3 in the west, two of which are in the sane city, what about the northern states, this only covers 8, what about the others? Hawaii? Alaska? Even the entire country of Canada don't have one close enough to ride to on a moose, it's just a mess, the lack if information will surely kill it.

The only reason the 30k viewers will grow is because of aome sort of cosmetic reward, which is why we'd almost never play HOTS until we were promised skins, and not having a loyal viewership is bad, the OW team can only make so many skins, and even if they commit, the events will be ruined. Besides, no ome wants 12 basic genji skins with a different color pallet. Unless they really fix spectatorship, and make some sort of reason for us to watch, no one will be interested except the people nearby OWL teams.

Pretty sure Kruise said the only player from EUnited that got into OWL was boombox.

I can't find the source, i heard it from the Overview episode 80, but i can't remember exactly when, but anyways, Mickie said that the new player was

1) From a different country

2) Played in a season of Apex (he said this about the 8th player, not 9th as far as i know)

The different country part was confirmed, so here's the list of non-korean (since they have effect) team players who were in a season of apex and haven't publicly said they were on X team or weren't on a team.

Season 1:

NRG:

none (all american + Num who's almost certainly on LA)

Reunited

(Kruise said EUnited members except boombox weren't in OWL, here are the ppl who didn't move to EUnited)
Winghaven
Onigod

Rogue:

(Tviq+Reinforce are swedes, Knoxxx isn't in, Unkoe is prob on LA, AKM said he's not in)
Winz

Envy:

InternetHulk (yeah no, but technically he fits the qualifications)

Season 2:

Cloud 9

(2 american 2 swedes)
Surefour
Roolf

Fnatic

(3 american, 1 swede)
Hafficool
Custa

Misfits

none (all swedes)

Season 3:

Rogue

(Unkoe and Soon are practically confirmed to be on LA, AKM and Knoxxx have said they're not in OWL)
Nico
Winz

Season 4:

No NA/EU orgs

So if this is true, it limits our options for at least 1 player, here are all of them:

Winghaven
Onigod
Winz
InternetHulk (Technically)
Surefour
Roolf
Hafficool
Custa
Nico

Keep in mind this may not be true, Envy may have changed their mind, and this may only apply to 1, those are the OW players who aren't the nationality of any on Envy's players and who have played in a season of Apex.

My guesses:

Surefour
Boombox

Well it's not Knoxxx feelabadman https://mobile.twitter.com/numlocked/status/922537517311606784

Update: https://mobile.twitter.com/Davin_OW/status/922098374077280256

They still MAY be in contenders, feelsbadman Davin ruined my only achievement, don't delete this thread though, it still has some important info.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Davin_OW/status/921956090392260609

You can add Davin to the list FeelsBadMan

Davin announced on twitter Gigganti are disbanding: https://twitter.com/Davin_OW/status/921851649223790592

https://twitter.com/HidanTF2/status/919869386902659072

hidan confirmed

Well, it's obvious you will never understand my point of view and this conversation is going no where, i give up.

yes, true, but when was the last time you've seen a genji get more then 2 kills with a dragon blade? Other then like twice from agilites, it's not that teams don't know how to counter genji, they've perfected it, to the point where it's nearly impossible to get value out of a blade, this is why Shadowburn has been playing less genji over all even before these Mercy and D.va changes, i'm not saying it's the only reason, obviously projectile players picking up Junkrat since he's risen to the top of the meta is a factor, along with all the other balance changes, but it's still hard for even the best genjis in the world to get value out of genji now, if you watch a tournament with SDB a year ago on genji compared to now, it's evident his playstyle has changed, teams punish risks and don't allow genji's to get aggressive, it could also be the fact that Zen is alot more meta and his ult counters genji, that could be it actually.

Well, lessening the impact of blade has always been a thing, but now teams can do it so effectively and consistently, that not even the best Genji players like Shadowburn can make it work at times, SDB has been playing a wide veritety of heroes with mixed success, and that's not the only reason for Genjis decline, but with teams playing against him so often and having tons of experience, it's not helping genji.

TBH i think it's more teams learning how to play around genji blade, like you don't see 4-6K blades anymore except from time to time when we see agilities, but other then that, teams use support ults better, they just kill him in the blade, etc. also, with the new moth Mercy, you need long ranged hitscan like Mccree or widow to kill her, or at least limit her options, and with more Mercy, there's more Pharah, which genji isn't that strong against, and Junkrat is difficult to play genji against, same thing with a good hog, plus genji can't kill junk tires too well.

"while McGravy's consistency cannot be undervalued."
flashes back to when he blinked off the map on illios

Odd, where is Shadowburn in all of this? He has phenomenal projectile play, by that i mean his Pharah and Genji, his Doomfist is good, Zarya is solid, and he has one of the biggest brand's in OW, if im not mistaken, SDB got more votes for the Condenders Showmatch then Taimou Seagull and EFFECT, it's just hard for me to believe he hasn't been rumored in anything so far. Also, if we think all these leaks are true as well as that the LA 2 roster consists of players they are following on twitter. Heres the post: https://www.over.gg/6204/owl-rosters-rumors

So, basically, if all of these rumors are true, along with the LA 2 one, and if Shanghai picks up a chinese team and Philly get GC Busan + Carpe, which i can see happening because of the hero pools of GC Busan not really having a genji (that i've seen) and Carpe being great on it when he was on his older team with bunny (can't remember name, they disbanded tho, and vsed Envy a few times) then the only team that has announced they have a member yet to be announced is SF, now, what are they lacking? A Genji and Pharah player, a stand out doomfist, and a popular and well known player? Well it just so happens that there's a person who fits that description, and doesn't have an OWL team, and hasn't announced he's looking for one. Hmm... Its someone who is also from Russia who may have visa problems like Tonic, which may be a reason for a delay in announcement... Just food for thought...

Next day: SF "everyone welcome San Fran Dafran"

Me: b...b...b...but but but...

No, in all seriousness SDB and Sinnatra combo would be sick to watch.

Why is the skin doomfist though? i get that every character will probably get a skin, but shouldn't i be Mccree? i mean Dallas Fuel didn't take it and Iddqd is one of the most popular Mccrees, and Sinnatra's tracer is great, shouldn't it be either of those? Also calling it, Seoul will be D.va and London is Tracer.

Envision 2-1 Envision will probably take control if Tseini goes pharah, other two ges will be close.

Yes, MY did male it a close series against LH, but the whole "they've been undefeated for 22 games or whatever" is valid but not really accurate to their actual skill, they have things they need to improve on some things, besides LH played with a new roster and not the optinal DPS set up. They'd be an OWL level team if they were in like Apex which in my opinion is a much more competitive tournament and would really test them and help them improve.

Overrated team: C9 KD, everyone thinks they're one of the best OWL teams but i just don't think the coordination and teamwork is there yet, i like their logo though. Another one is Faze, they have alot of star players but not much synergy. Last one MY, they're dominant in the China scene but they lost to Lunatic Hai in the tournament that just happened this weekend (don't remember name).

Underrated: Renegades, everyone thinks they're garbage teir, but actually they're all teir 1, and the only reason they lost is because Blizzard hacked all of them (XD memes) no, seriously, RNG did pretty good vs FNRGFE when they put Mangachu on dps amd ZachaREEE on offtank. Also IMT if the roster changes go through.

Overrated: Jaru, his genji isn't that good, his shrunken accuracy is inconsistent compared to Agilities and SDB, also Logix, hes not that good on LAN, other Tracers aren't far behind. Also i think Muma and Coolmatt aren't the best tanks in the worls, they're good but not that good. IDDQD, not sure why NRG keep him around, after Sinnatraa and Super can play, he won't get much play time in OWL. Lastly, Tviq, might be a little rustly, idk, but he hasn't impressed me.

Underrated: MYKL, hes actually the best player on Kungarna, XD, but i think Agilities is underrated, hes one of the best in the world, his team haven't enabled him too much tho. Grim and J3 are also, Tracer isn't their best heroes. Reinforce, hes not that bad, knows alot about the game. And Super, lots skill, lots of flexibility. Lastly, Harbleu, nutty Zarya and Hog, he can ne a specialist/sub for a OWL team for sure.

Apparently Rouge were playing from Canadian hotels or something at the beginning of Contenders. They stepped it up near the end tho.

How tf can CG busan be overrated, they beat two of the best korean teams in a dominating 3-0 fashion, Lunatic Hai twice, the team that many people to be the best team in the world, 3-0, twice. If you're going to call anyone overrated call Lunatic Hai overrated, yeah their dps are bad, but that never stopped them in the past, its not like they barely stole 1 very close series against LH, no, they 3-0 the best team in the world twice.

In my opinion i feel that Xepher and Munchkin are sort of there to intergrate the NA and EU to be fans of team Souel, obviously Munchkin from Lazer Kittens and Xepher from C9. But other then that i don't see why these two. I mean theres more talent on rosters like GC Busan and Runaway. Also, i feel like the Xepher and Zunba situation will be very similer to Envy and Hyped, and i assume Xepher will be on the bench most if the time. Besides Zunba has more experience working with Miro and Ryujehong. Unless they want to run some weird D.va and Zarya strat on a particular map, i don't see Xepher getting much play time.

Well, This line up has potential. Mistakes, Dream, Striker, Gamsu, Snow, and NotE. Its a solid starting point. I think, personally, they should get Adam and Roolf as the supports. They're two of the best and have played together for a while. There aren't too many good offtanks out there, but NotE might surprise us. Im confident in Mistakes, but i feel like someone consistent, who has alot of LAN experience, like AKM, or Linkzr, could be good for the team in general. I like dream, he was good in the teir 2 scene, but how well does he stack up to players like Taimou, or EFFECT, or Birdring, etc. I dont know much about Gamsu and Striker, i don't have an opinion on them. But this team is lacking quite a few parts. Also, if Tracer falls out of the meta, i think mistakes could transfer well to the zarya role.

I jusr want Snow and Fire on the same team now XD

Yeah, couldn't figure out how to spell it since he changed his twitter just put my best guess.

Zuppehw of Misfits changed his in game name to Zuppeh, dropping the W: https://mobile.twitter.com/ZuppehOW/status/918063131481595904

I can't help but think Linkzr and Zuppeh had a bet that whichever team lost, they had to change their name. I guess Misfits really did drop the W XD this is what you get for messing with my boy Reinforce. XD #voteforReinforce2018

Eh, if it is real, then i might be a little disapointed. Didn't Harsha say Boston was bad? I remember a post about that i think. I personally believe that Linkzr will be on this roster because of how he showed up on LAN. Its not only important that he's good, he also had a really good performance on LAN which is where every OWL game is going to take place. Mistakes and Linkzr would be a sick combo. Im happy for all the EU players on this roster. They many not be as popular as some of the NA players, but they're just as good. We'll have to see how they do and what the final roster is.

So for example, If Mangachu where on NRG, and theh wanted to run Hanzo on Kings Row, and their line up is Nomy, Mangachu, Danteh, and Babybay with Dhak and Sleepy, They can run triple tank like Faze do on Hollywood with mixed success. They could have Mangachu on Hanzo and Danteh and Babybay flex to off tanks. Then on defence they could run Soldier and Tracer with Babybay and Danteh and then put Mangachu on Zarya. Same thing of they would want to run Pharah or Junkrat.

Well they took maps off FNRGFE when they actually put Mangachu on DPS and took ZachaREEE off it, his Roadhog was amazing on Hanamura vs FNRGFE. I can see a team picking up Mangachu as a Pharah, Junkrat, and Hanzo specialist, kind of like how Envy use Seagull. Other then that, the rest are sub-par, J3sus might do better if he doesn't have to play Tracer, his Mccree and Soldier are pretty good, and i was impressed with ZachaREEE's offtank, but he prob doesn't have the hero pool for OWL. i think Sherlocky was one of the underrated parts, and RNG was screwed over by the fact they couldn't play with J3sus.

It's also very possible that they transition Soon into the Zarya role if Tracer ever falls out of the meta, or if they want to run a different composition. Soon has insane tracking, and we've seen what Sinnatra can do with Zarya. However i expect them to pick up a new offtank player for sure, it's also possible they move Agilites back on the Hog if he becomes meta again.

Well their roster isn't revealed yet so its very possible. It sucks that hyped left, he didn't even get a chance to play in contenders.

If OWL scouting is mostly over, are GC Busan not going to get picked up? What about Gigantti, I can't imagine Linkzr and Shaz not getting on a team after their performance in contenders.

But Verbo's and Unkoe's names sound so good together tho.

Don't forget the micromanaging and leadership.

To add onto my earlier post, Overwatch is a team game with many moving, complicated parts. Tanks create space for DPS players to be able to eliminate players, Healers heal those tanks so they can do their job, DPS and Tanks peal for Supports so they can do their jobs. If one of the role's isn't executed properly, the whole dynamic falls apart. This is what we see from teams like Eunited and Renegades, who's tank role isn't fulfilled properly, meaning players like Mangachu and Unfixed aren't comfortable on the Tank role, and therefore don't do their jobs, so the DPS don't have space to make plays, and Support's don't have as much pealing. (You could apply this to Rouge, however, they were playing from hotels and what not in Canada and they actually preformed well near the end of Contenders season 1). The reason AKM, Soon, and Nico are able to do their jobs is because Knoxxx does his job and makes space, the reason that they were so successful for months is because everyone did their job well, not because AKM and Soon have good aim, well that was a part, but it is much more complex then that.