Oh shit, 3 tapping Pharah/Mercy is back in the game. A welcome change imo, since I'm a Soldier/Ana main.

That's not limited to Korea, and comparing it to other games serves no purpose in this conversation, as it's about Overwatch, not CS.

Very interesting roster choices and as noted not a single member of MY. Some are most certainly missing because of age restrictions but if the team does stay intact it looks like they'll possibly get to dominate the Chinese scene for another year before some of their players inevitably get pulled in, like leave when he's 18, I assume.

Hopefully they can compete with some of the strong rosters teams will be fielding in OWL S1. Luckily for them though they'll probably have relatively exclusive picking rights to the whole region unless a 2nd CN OWL team comes up. so there's bound to be a number of diamonds in the rough that have yet to be discovered.

That being said, if China manages to garnish enough interest for a 2nd team then hopefully so does Korea. Being able to represent their Country/Region in OWL is a big thing for both those scenes.

Same, I'll do my best to list teams by how strong I feel they are but I'll most likely be horrendously wrong and it'll have to be after all rosters have been revealed.

I agree, I think they could do very well. If they are looking to get into OWL they would probably be Canada's one spot so I'm hoping they find what they're looking for.

Wouldn't mind seeing AKM and Knoxx here with McGravy on Flex Tank but able to hit up the Tracer if they want to triple DPS. In any case I wish Fahzix, Tseini and the remaining EnVision guys luck and much success.

The "can't aim" myth has been busted for quite a while, at least as far as Overwatch goes, not sure what Overwatch matches you've been watching lately.

I just explained the shit out of that unless you couldn't take two seconds to read before deciding to comment. There are as many ppl "jizzing" all over them as there are people like you shitting on them for no logical reason, with no empirical data.

You want to know what an actual evaluation would be? That would be short LANs all over the world, in each region so that each of the groups could play on the other's turf but not over such a period that accommodations would become a factor.

We won't get that in OWL, it's been talked about to death at the top level and people that actually follow the Overwatch scene, because other games mean nothing in this conversation, know that of course Koreans are amazing in Korea. Their whole support system is built around making them better. Unless they can perfectly replicate that there's a well documented chance that they won't be able to maintain that level of performance.

This topic is beyond stupid and incredibly pointless unless your goal is to either reinforce stereotypes or try and find some obscure reason why your region is "better" than another. Individual skill varies, team skill varies, region skill isn't a thing, it's a perception, no matter how much you want to talk about it. Considering how insulation the Asian scene has been it's incredibly idiotic to go down the "Asians/Koreans" are the best/gods/shit/bad aimers.

There's blind stupidity on both sides, quite obviously and I'd assume you'd be smart enough to see that.

Here's Tseini's LFT post: https://twitter.com/tseiniow/status/925301174680588288

You're picking xQc, Surefour, Roolf and Joemeister as your sticking point? Now you're just straight up not making any sense. Specially considering that they had to beat Russia, an arguably better team than Australia to get here.

I'm not sure what barometer you're using to judge this team but you seriously need to adjust it.

#53 - Juste take a look at this :
https://www.winstonslab.com/player_rankings/singleEvent.php?id=79
First tank of Contender player, Knoxxx, even with a team not in form.

Valid point but stats are only part of the picture and we clearly lack a lot of information on the matter. It's very unfortunate that Knoxx, AKM and Winz won't get to show their skills in OWL but if they stick around I can only assume they'd be front runners for season 2.

I think the current consensus is that turnover will most likely affect almost every team so players that were passed on, and that are still playing the game, might get their time in the spotlight.

A lot of things will most likely depend on how Contenders S2 and the OWL S2 signing period will be handled.

@remiska, this is the Reddit Thread that references the roster reveal. It links to a Chinese article.

I think you can officially update your OWL teams thread with this roster for the Shanghai Dragons.

Some of his points ring true, some are objectively biased and as misdirecting as the KR fanboys out there.

Just read your comment, sounds like a similar situation to what several of the Korean teams are facing with some of their best players being underage.

I'll say this much, when in their home element the Korean scene as a whole does seem to be stronger than the rest. This doesn't mean that Korean players are just better than NA, EU CN or SEA players and making that comparison in a vacuum is illogical.

What remains to be seen is if the imported players are able to retain and/or improve their level of play when taken out of said element.

tl;dr - KR (Region) > All (Region) != KR (Players) > All (Players)

Interesting that none of the players are from the most dominant team in China at the moment. At the very least leave and Eileen should have made this roster.

Very interesting choices in some cases.

VISA issues, remember?

I think eventual roster changes were inevitable if they wanted to be able to compete but I'm still sad to see any of these guys go.

Looks like Tseini and Fahzix are "stepping down".

Here's the owner's twit longer about it:
https://twitter.com/ggenvision/status/925204063825915905

This thread is an odd one to me. The only thing it could possibly be good for would be to stroke one's ego that their region is better than another.

As it's been mentioned, I don't think a group of players of any region are necessarily better than another when put in a vacuum. The Koreans are strong because of how their scene is structure along with the fact that their culture is a good fit for excelling team play and favoring it over a more solo carry mindset that we often have in the west.

It's almost impossible to compare regions properly since the game hasn't had enough cross region tournaments where undue stress wasn't put on the foreign teams. I think a large part of the arguably correct perception that the Korean scene is the strongest is that it's also the most active in terms of big tournaments and the environment seems to be what players need to thrive.

I've watched most of not all the OW available to me from NA, EU, KR, CN and SEA and even though I have a good idea of which teams are strong in their own region I have to defer to very few result from teams playing in the other regions. OWL will also take time to produce any meaningful results since the fully KR teams will need to acclimate to not being in Korean etc.

In the end I don't see the point or benefit of arguing about which region is the best and whether you think any ethnicity or region is superior is largely irrelevant in the end, imo.

Agreed, and they crushed it the one game they played together in Contenders so I'm happy to see it come back. I think this is one of the best roster moves they could have made since the reveal.

Better than sex.

I don't think they were ever overestimated. If anything people were worried they'd do poorly because Mangachu wasn't a great flex and they somehow managed to pull through with the Hail Mary triple DPS Pharah comp.

This current patch enables the team with the highest number of very capable Pharah players so while they're still not favorite to win it all they do have a better chance than they did before. Specially against a team that hasn't looked all that comfortable in the latest meta.

tl;dr: Sous-estime pas les Canadiens, on a des Orignaux avec du panache en maudit.

Best roster news I've heard from them since their odd reveal. He and Sinatraa killed it when they were paired together, amazing addition.

This Reddit comment made me chuckle:

[–]TYsunshineRunaway to victory — RunAway | Seoul Dynasty 53 points 6 hours ago*
I'd say with the jehong nerf mercy patch, the other teams have a chance to take a point.

It's either a nerf on Jehong or Tobi, whoever they decide to put on Mercy, unless they go with a no-Mercy comp which could work but they'd be at a big disadvantage against a very good team.

I'll be looking very forward to seeing if team USA can take advantage of this or if team SK are able to compensate and outplay them.

As for results my gut feeling is that SK win 3-1, but honestly I can't really tell since we haven't seen either teams scrim against opponents their counterpart also played against.

Should be an interesting match given Rogue's death and team China's VISA issues. A few Chinese peeps on Reddit noted that this team doesn't have a solid Mercy player and the new D.Va shouldn't be as disruptive to AKM as she was before so I think France has a better chance than ever to possibly get a win and move on to face SK or USA here.

Sad to see the our last whoorah Avec le Six, hope they can go out with a bang and prove the teams that passed them up wrong.

Given his last name (Kim) I assume he's a Korean-American, regardless though, I think a mix of both is probably going to be needed to help them acclimate to their new environment.

A few articles have been made pointing out that the success of these Korean squads might hinge on how well they can adapt to being taken out of their Korean bubble.

Don't forget that they'll need much more support than a normal western squad would. I think success in OWL for them will be heavily dependent on how well they can adjust to not being in Korea and dealing with the displacement and homesickness etc.

I don't know what roles all of them will have but they will probably play a large one in that regards.

I'm not a fan of the logo, the color scheme is very similar to Dallas and the name is definitely the one I dislike the most out of the currently revealed ones yet.

I'll be looking forward to seeing what they do with the roster down the line and if they'll keep adding more Koreans from the ever growing pool of talent in APEX or if they'll restructure the team to be a mix of KR/NA/EU down the line.

Adam and Rawkus will unquestionably be the stronger support duo this time around

That's going to depend on how strong Mercy is when they play, and even then, I think it levels the playing field more than anything. I wouldn't go as far as making team USA the favorites here since no matter how much they like to posture about their strength, they're the ones that need to prove themselves, not the other way around.

I think forcing diversity because NY is a diverse city makes little sense from a competitive point of view, though I can understand your feelings on this I also think they aren't entirely justified until the team actually plays and performs.

By the way, them being unproven is an interesting quote, considering how far they got in previous APEX seasons and them picking up one of the best Korean takes available.

It's also a fact that Season 1 will be in LA, so the local aspect of the league doesn't quite kick in, giving teams time to do their best to market their squads and make the changes that will inevitably come after the first season.

I'll say this, in terms of team strength I don't think they would have been better off as a KR/NA/EU mix but we'll see how far being marketable gets you since we have a few examples to base ourselves off of in the form of SF and Houston or Boston's mix model.

Interestingly enough, Reinforce probably would have been a decent fit if you swap Snillo in for Cwoosh. Right now they get to replicate the setup they have in Misfits but that also include their inability to effectively run Rein comps.

With that it's harder to tell if the team is better or worst than before since Reinforce's Winston wasn't great, but it was getting better imo.

I actually agree with the move in a vacuum, because in the end it does seem to make the team stronger, but to me this is also a case of kicking a guy when he's down, after he had been taken off the Misfits roster. I can also understand doing this since things could have been awkward had he remained on team Sweden but I think the general sentiment is that it was a shit thing to do to a good guy.

Other than your disdain of Koreans in NY, what do you objectively not like about this roster?

I think this might also be the most quiet reveal yet. I could have easily missed it.

This is very doable to USA. Neither Jehong or Tobi are great Mercy players and their positioning often gets them killed since they can't peel for themselves as they would normally be able to do.

If she's not toned down before they play, which is very likely, we could see the biggest upset of the tournament. And no matter what the team USA boys say, it would be a massive upset, imo.

In any case it's clear that they can do this!

Worst team name yet, imo. Just waiting on the logo and color scheme, which seems to be blue, to make the final judgement.

At least their roster is solid, just need to add a few players to insure a high level of flexibility.

That's correct, he'll still be 17. It does look like they'll have a solid roster until he can play, and an even better one once he does start playing.

Not sure internet pressure or bad press are the reasons, might actually be people like Monte and other peeps in the scene helping out to help correct this oversight and letting the correct ppl know.

The comp community may be shit, and we might be missing a lot of talented pros in OWL, but at least we can come together and get Harsha a damn media pass. I'll take that as a win.

ez4Canada if Mercy is the live version, otherwise I think Canada is still arguably stronger, but the match might be closer. That being said, I think Canada win 3-0, Australia's roster isn't exactly the one BLANK has been playing with and they haven't looked that strong as of late either.

As a Canadian I am compelled to root for her Majesty's representatives, well at least until they get crushed by the Suped up Maple Syrup Squad, oh and #JusticeForReinforce

As for results, I think UK win 3-2 but it's hard to tell who will actually come out on top here. I'm hoping for a highly competitive match in either case.

That's why none of us are in charge of player selection and coaching for that team. It's pretty obvious we lack the foresight and the understanding to make proper sense of their roster choice, because OWL will change how team approach building their squads.

It's no longer just about having a solid 6, and no player is untouchable for the sake of being effective and flexible in as many situations as possible.

Ult management was the name of the game here. Runaway had moments where they looked real good but GC Busan was able to be much more consistent with their high level of ult use.

Amazing team, looking forward to seeing how they adapt to their new environment and teammates.

One thing to note about Runaway though is that they're doing all of this with almost no support afaik. I can just imagine how good this team could be if they had proper support staff and management like most of their opponents did.

Assumptions and speculation is great, if you're looking to be as useful as Reddit, but more concrete information is needed to make a realistic and informed judgement call.

Hopefully over.gg gets allowed a pass in the future but it's a tad early for conspiracy theories, imo.

#12 - He's slightly overreacting here, but denying that Genji is the most broken hero in the game after mercy doesn't work anymore. I mean they were able to fix doomfist's hitbox in just 1 week, but genji hitbox will always be a big closet.

Pro tip, don't shoot the deflecting Genji.

#7 - They've got ryujehong listed as "sub support". You know your team is good when you've got the captain of the Korean national team and the single most accomplished player in all of OW on the bench.

Sub =Flex.

People have to start rethinking how teams will approach making rosters in OWL. Whether it's to meta proof themselves, shore up any weaknesses they have or even to have high level backups on the roster, I believe we're going to see more of this approach in future seasons if OWL is able to solidify itself as a mainstay of eSports.

Yes they have overlap, I'm pretty sure they're aware of it, but given the new looks they started giving us at Contenders S1 this move makes sense and is in line with what seems to be their philosophy on this.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how rosters change over the seasons, specially after this first one since they're likely, imo, to be very volatile as teams, players and management figure out what works and what doesn't.

Interesting roster, though I'm assuming this isn't their final form, since even though I think it's good I don't think it's quite at the level of Dallas or Seoul and there's still ample available talent out there.

Cough AKM Cough

Given the need for overlap in this league I think he would have slotted in just fine here, but hey, a man can dream.

Welp, repeat of APEX finals confirmed. Runaway are really going to have to bring it to GCB...but I gotta go with the feels on this one, so 4-3 Runaway!

RUNAWAY FIGHTNING!!

Interesting perspective, we must not be watching the same matches then.

Going forward I'm just going to assume that you're trolling given your history of similar comments.

Profit to Arhan: Anything you can do, I can do better.

GCB schooling AF on how to engage, shutdown star players and close out a series.

#25 - So you think they need a player who only play Mercy??? If they can't adapt with the meta, they deserve to lose.

Pretty sure he never mentioned them needing a Mercy one trick, no need to try and shove words he didn't use into your response.

If you want another example Lunatic Hail/Seoul is a very high level team that doesn't have a great Mercy player and are therefore at a great disadvantage in this shit Mercy meta.

There's no two ways about this, she's way too powerful and pretty much just dominates the pace of play like no other hero has ever done up until this point.