Overwatch League introduces hero pools

#1

irishfire

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This is basically just blizzard taking bans and choosing what they want out. I like the concept but it creates a huge luck scenario for owl if the best heroes of one team are all banned while the other team doesn’t. Like at its core it’s bans but blizzard taking the wheel

#4

raymond907

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Well it forces teams to either A, have a well rounded roaster or B, have well rounded players. Players like Note and ameng can’t basically one trick a hero in the top lvl of play anymore. It also doesn’t really create a luck factor, after 2 weeks the most played heroes will be banned, after the first few games you should be able to tell which heroes are gonna be banned next time. And if you’re argument is that a teams best heroes won’t be available, then that team shouldn’t be considered a top tier team if they can’t adapt

#12

KuroiRyuu9625

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The heroes picked for bans/possible adjustments will be based on playtime, so he can one-trick all he wants as long as Hammond isn't popular.

#18

raymond907

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at some point, with a combination of bans hammond will be the meta tank at some point

#20

Frozello

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I don't think a team has schedule, where they would play every 2nd week, which would basically make it possible for same hero being banned every single game for them. But to be fair teams can't just bank up for having Dva in every single tactic they play, which is probably a good thing.

This HeroPool thing will absolutely need some adjustment later on, maybe during the season, but there's some idea in it, when we are actually at higher number of heroes 40, 50... etc. It's okay to experiment now than figure it out now than, when there's multiple heroes, which can fill into same role.

#6

Frozello

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I think it's better with Blizzard (basically it's OWL teams who are banning it by playing certain heroes) to decide bans as otherwise we would be stuck in "ban phase" for too long. It's probably more entertaining to watch OWL than play on ladder though.

I wonder does this change affect into Power Rankings. Just imagine all those teams with single Tank or Support in given position and they are basically 1-trick for OWL and that hero gets banned (as everyone will play it) often.

#9

irishfire

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It doesn't stop all one tricks though. Like I don't see wrecking ball being banned at all because he on pen and paper isn't a strong here but ameng is so good on the hero that he makes wrecking ball good. So players like Ameng aren't gonna be affected by this.

#10

Frozello

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Well, if only Chengdu/Ameng plays Ball does that even make that high pickrate for Ball? Might even depend how many games there will be played at each Homestand, if only 2 games (x2Homestands) per day Chengdu might suffer, but with 4 games (x2Homestands) per day.Ball might end up being not that high pickrate.

By 1-trick I meant mostly all those teams, which have like just 1 Main Tank, but is that guy even good enough to play all presumable heroes he is meant to be playing (Rein, Orisa, Winston and Ball) ? OWL 1-trick and old-ladder Mercy 1-trick is not really same definition, but you should understand what I mean.

Well, if certain dps heroes (Sombra, McCree etc) gets banned maybe Ball gets more playtime, but will have to see, which ones even gets banned at start.

#21

irishfire

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Well if the hunters are the only Team out of the 20 teams who play wrecking ball, the play rate is gonna be around 5% which is gonna be overlooked

#2

IVIause

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Weekly hero pools makes a lot of sense on the competitive ladder to avoid player-to-player griefing, but it's ridiculous that this is coming to the league. Meta compositions and heroes play a gigantic role in how individual teams perform, this is not a well-kept secret, and now that we're already varying play with conferences, travel and scheduling, Blizzard wants to crowbar in an RNG meta-maker each weekend? Instead of just instituting hero bans like we asked for? Whatever. At least it's in character with their other authoritarian tendencies of late.

Also, am I the only one who doesn't want Blizzard to balance the game with a sledgehammer every week? I just want fewer stuns, shields, and abilities with cooldowns longer than 12 seconds. You don't have to delay doom's uppercut recovery or make mccree a bit thicc to make it enjoyable.

#3

robokun87

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Any game where you can ban something is ridiculous, these guys are the best in the world and whether it's OW, LoL or CS there's no excuses for this bullshit, do the teams even want this or is this Blizzards way of trying to make it more "entertaining"?

#5

raymond907

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I really like this, because I’m OWL there are a lot of players who are absolutely amazing on one hero and that is about it. I want to see players have a wide depth of hero’s they can play. If you can only play one or two heroes I don’t think you should be considered the best player in the world, or at least be the best team in the world

#7

Frozello

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I wonder how many surprising results we end up getting, because X hero is banned and X team can't win a game while that happens. Also wonder, what's the % of hero must be played until it can be included in ban draw.

It would be also hilarious, if some teams would play the long game and "throw" (by trying to play as much as possible heroes that they want to get banned for next week) week 6 as they know they would lose the game anyways and just wishing that by playing certain heroes they would reach the % to get them banned for next week vs their next opponent.

#8

robokun87

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And on the flipside if you can't counter every hero and/or comp can you be considered the best player in the world? just because you're the best player doesn't mean you can play every dps class, being the best footballer doesn't mean you can play every position nor does the same apply to any other sport, yet we expect people playing OW to be good at every hero because Blizzard want to introduce this gimmick bollocks?

#11

Frozello

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To be fair, if player is one dimensional (plays like 2-3 heroes) with his hero pool should he even be in OWL?

#14

robokun87

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Isn't that the whole point of having a roster of 12 though? if we expect everyone to be the best in the world on 5 different heroes then who will need more than 6 players? whole point of 12 is to specialize, so you can have an insane one trick you use on a certain map and so on.

#15

Wombat

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Robokun makes a great point here, the 12 man roster really comes into play with this change. Take Fusion for example: Tracer and Widow are banned so Carpe rides the bench for the week and Chipsa comes into play Doom. Are you saying Carpe doesn't belong in OWL?

I'd very much argue that he does belong.

#16

Frozello

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So are you calling Carpe OTP or why are you using him as example? Because in my mind Carpe can easily play about 5 heroes at very high level.

Well, if we compare Tank/Support vs DPS: Most Tank/Support players would only need to even have a clue about how to play 4-5 heroes at very high level. Not every MT or OT can play all 4 of their role heroes at highest level though. Normally it's like 2 or 3, but to be fair Tanks being player won't normally change that much during a map. I am not totally sure of supports as of lately you see both Flex or Main Support players playing "off-role" hero, if that's where meta is at the moment.

And with DPS there is 16 heroes with average it's 4 heroes per player (if we expect 4 DPS players per team, but some teams have 3 or 5) and to be fair quite a few of those heroes have somehow similar mechanics so, if player really can't learn to play 5 DPS heroes I don't really know, what can they bring into a team. Honestly I simply can't see Chipsa playing Doomfist 100% of the time, if he even gets to play at all.

#19

raymond907

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I think that point doesn't really hold up because Carpe can play every single hitscan hero along with genji and hanzo as well. I think a more fair comparison is Pine, who was more or less limited to widow, mccree, and im sure has a good ashe as well but his tracer wasn't anything special. Maybe in this new era of OWL he wouldn't really belong (I'm saying this as a massive Pine fan)

#17

Frozello

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And how many players in each team have overlapping hero pools?

#13

murasaki

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good concept poor execution

#22

Hiagain

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I'm worried about how much pressure this puts on coaching staffs. Good luck figuring out a new meta every other week. Otherwise though I dont really mind so much.

#23

irishfire

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Would it be a bad idea for ranked to have the hero pool and the owl to have teams choose their bans?

#24

Frozello

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It would not really be fair ban system, if one team can only ban 1tank and 1dps, where as other team bans 1dps and 1support. Adding ban phase into every OWL map isn't really needed and teams choosing a week in advance, which hero they want to ban for each map sounds not very interesting. It's also probably easier for broadcast talent to talk about matches, if they won't have to explain every 15minutes, which heroes are banned for this and this map.

It could be fair, if both teams gets to ban 1tank, 1-2dps and 1support, but I don't think we are there yet with amount of heroes for tank/support that 2 from each category could be banned. Someday probably, when there's 15 tanks and 15 supports.

I don't really know do I like whole system for OWL yet. Will have to watch couple weeks or months how much different variations will happen.

#25

irishfire

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The concept of each team getting 2 dps, 1 tank, and 1 support ban is what I think it should be too. The difference is I would have the band over the whole match

#28

Frozello

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That's, what it should be with how many heroes would be banned, but 7supports lineup isn't large enough to ban 2. With Overwatch 2 coming and more new heroes being added it's more suitable to do it there. Weirdly enough I'm almost "fine" with having 2 tanks banned even there's only 8, but would still prefer to have more than 10 heroes in each category before banning 2.

#26

zero

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I hope the desk just spins a wheel on broadcast to see what heroes are getting banned the week after.

#27

Hiagain

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This or anything similar would be fun

#30

Frozello

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That's the dream for Soe / Custa / Reinforce / + visiting analyst to make a draw for bans live after Sunday's games at post-game Watchpoint.

It would also maybe make more people tune into post-game show weekly basis.

#29

Friezareturns

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I will say that advantage now is that we won't have to see 1-2 teams attempt to fully master a single patch throughout Stages 1-4. For Semis and Finals yes but it won't be as double barrier crazy or GOATs influenced.