Seagull flocks to EnVyUS for Overwatch League

#1

NoMercY

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flex?

#3

Admirable

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Just a catch-all, honestly don't know

#4

Taichi

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as far as i know his zarya is nuts.
he was one of the most flexible players in the past (well he doesnt play tracer but everything else)
so being flex is fine

#2

darkcvc

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Wow damn. That's sick.

#5

Winter

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Envy vs Lunatic Hai gonna be breaking some Overwatch viewer records.

#9

KuroiRyuu9625

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Never have I seen anything more true. It's going to be a true battle of the East vs the West...in the stands as well as in the game.

#6

paolodicanio

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with the latest dva changes i have a bad feeling for mickie here :(

#37

Bantha

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Nah, don't worry, his Winston/Orisa is top tier as well. His Zarya isn't as good but it doesn't need to be.

#38

poi98

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Riot if they change mickie for seagull.....#thaiforthewin

#39

KuroiRyuu9625

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Players will be swapped in and out to accommodate their strats, I think the probability of it being Mickie is higher than the other two but it's not guaranteed.

#7

Involv3r

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More flags :pepesquare:

#8

KuroiRyuu9625

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Just want to note that EnvyUs officially has an NA player. IT'S OFFICIAL BOYS, THEY'RE AN NA TEAM. KAPPA PRIDE.

#10

BigBad01

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Does anybody know what the OWL rules for in-game substitutions will be? Can teams make swaps between different maps during the same match (for example between different Oasis maps?)?

#11

darkcvc

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Not sure that those types of specific rules have been released yet. We can perhaps use the contenders rules as a go by but not sure they will be the same.

https://www.overwatchcontenders.com/files/Full%20Ruleset.pdf

#14

BigBad01

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Interesting, thanks. After skimming, I don't see anything forbidding between-map swaps.

Also, this tweet seems to support the idea that Envy will be doing some fine-grain, map-dependent, team composition management:

https://twitter.com/hastr0/status/911674388591849475

If so, I think this will make OWL really exciting in ways we haven't yet seen in pro overwatch!

#12

Admirable

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Tweet from his agents :D
https://twitter.com/EvolvedTalent/status/911667125168726016

Edit: who interestingly also represent sinatraa

#13

PapalWizard

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Team being built as I'd expect, get the best hitscan, projectile and tracer you can then you should in theory be 'meta proof'. I expect some teams to get spare tanks and supports if they can but not sure it's something envy needs to worry about.

#15

darkcvc

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This team is one CoolMatt69 away from me dropping Rogue and buying an Envy jersey.

#16

bane

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i'd be so torn as to which jersey to buy, if they end up releasing jerseys with player names. do i want a 69 jersey or do i want a bird jersey :thinking:

#17

darkcvc

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I would go CoolMatt unless they sign Dogman too haha.

#18

Pixelfish

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I don't know who they're gonna use for the starting roster. Well also have to see if Envy picks up anyone else before the League starts. I can't imagine they'd get someone as valuable as Seagull, only to put him on the bench.

edit: Based on a Reddit thread, Its likely that teams can sub out players for different maps. That means that they can utilize Seagull's projectile skills and flexibility, Effect's Tracer, Mickie's Dva, Taimou's hitscan , etc. For an infinite amount of possibilities. Sounds great to me.

edit 2: Guys I know I've expressed I'm a seagull fanboy before but y'all have no idea how fucking hyped I am to see him play again. It's gonna be lit.

#19

f0rc3_f33din

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How is this going to work from a logistical stand point? Will we have to wait extend times between maps to allow players to swap out change accounts, change peripherals and then possibly settings or will there be maybe 7/8 PC's setup for each team when at LAN?

#20

darkcvc

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I am guessing it will be similar to Apex (and other eSports) where there are a certain amount of Tactical pauses or timeouts and roster swaps allowed per game.

#21

Laszlo

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Datsick

#22

volteczero

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NA player PogChamp

#23

Blue

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can't beat them? Join them

congrats to the highest paid bench warmer in owl

#24

LaurenceR

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Everyone needs to get over this 'bench warmer' attitude, including certain pro players. The future of the game is clearly going to be large rosters where players are picked for games depending on the current meta, the map selections, etc. Being a 7th, 8th, 9th etc. player on a roster shouldn't be seen as insulting. It might be that in the current meta, you don't get much game time, but in 3 months time, you might be starting every game.

#25

robokun87

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What's changed then? can't think of a single game in the history of e-sports that's had any more than 1 sub at most so why are people suddenly expecting OWL teams to have a 12 man roster, because the meta changes on a weekly basis? hardly mate, it's good to have options indeed but how you gonna scrim with an 10 man roster? good luck micromanaging that as well as paying about a million dollars a season in wages alone plus the fact you will need an absolute mansion of a gaming house adding to the cost.

Still can't believe how people suddenly expect OW to morph into something completely different because of OWL.

#26

KuroiRyuu9625

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I can't predict the future but given that OWL allows you to have up to 12 players I expect most teams to take advantage of that and have subs.

I have no idea how many or what role they will play but you have to expect that OWL Overwatch will change because, well because it's OWL. It's not like people are saying the whole scene is going to change, maybe it will, maybe it won't but the rule set of the league does make it possible.

Shouldn't too much of a stretch to think that the extra space will be utilized, this isn't some crazy theory, it's literally applying the rules that have been announced.

#27

robokun87

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So by that logic if OWL allowed a 24 man roster then you would expect people to utilize that space since it's literally applying the rules that have been announced? come on man, that's merely a rule in place to stop people hoarding every Korean under the sun and preventing other teams getting them, I will be absolutely shocked and eat about 50 hats if there is any one team in OWL that will feel the need to recruit 12 players.

Putting 12 players under 1 roof will require a shit ton of food and looking after, you will need about 3 staff to cater to them and manage them plus good luck figuring out a scrim schedule in that case so all in all you're paying about 15 people to live in some mansion and doing scrims with every comp known to man.

Doesn't sound realistic to me but we will see.

#28

KuroiRyuu9625

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Your logic argument doesn't work because it's 12, and not 24, semantics won't be of much use when we actually have real numbers to use here. I'm sure you're also aware that the total costs for these OWL teams will be a fraction of what an actual sports team costs to operate so it's unlikely to be an issue given the capital I assume these teams have.

I think you might have an unrealistic idea of how much money is actually in play here, this really shouldn't be that shocking to you. It all depends on how much money the owners and investors want to inject into it, and again, it's a fraction of what actual professional sports teams cost.

#29

robokun87

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I know it's 12 hence why I said "if OWL allowed a 24 man roster" since your argument was basically if OWL allow it you might as well utilize it, which doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure you're also aware the income from these OWL teams will be a fraction of what an actual sports team makes a season so don't expect Kraft or whatever to pump millions a season on a 12 man roster when the income isn't worth it.

Just because the buy in spots are $20m don't expect the owners to pump another $10m on top of that, surely you don't expect the income of OWL to be that high, I may have an unrealistic idea of how much money is in play but then again so do you, unless you have been told what capital all teams will earn then please enlighten us.

The money involved isn't shocking to me only the fact some people believe these teams will have 12 man rosters but as I said, time will tell.

Anyway I'm not getting into another back and forth of speculation where none of us have enough solid facts to argument with, we don't know if teams will field a 12 man roster or how much money they will make profit each season so don't waste your energy over it, I ain't. It's all he said she said nonsense I ain't got time for.

#33

KuroiRyuu9625

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Profit and investments are two different things, that I do know. I'm just responding to you saying that you don't think team would field 12 because of the costs. I think it's also unlikely that teams would see any profits until several seasons down the line. Blizzard's hold on revenue sharing until later is probably indicative of that so it's also unlikely to have been an immediate factor.

In the end I'm saying the costs will probably be extremely small in comparison to the capital available to these owners, so a return on the initial investments is probably not their main objective at the moment. But it's as you mentioned, how much they chose to put in is unknown.

#30

Generation1

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The difference from other e-sports is that Overwatch has 16 maps and counting and has 24 different heroes that come in and out of meta. Different from MOBAs in that it's not as simple to be good at 1 role as long as you put in the work on whatever hero fits the current meta. In mobas you play support and the characters have differences but they essentially do the same thing. Are mercy and lucio the same at all other than that they both heal? Mechanically no.

In CS, they have 7 maps. You practice 3-4 and suck at the others and hope you're able to pick 2 in a BO3. It's not that simple in OW. Having a genji player be really good on a specific map and he's able to practice that map more than all the rest gives you an advantage over a team that has a genji player that has to learn 2 maps. Now instead of getting 8 hours of practice on 1 map, he only gets 4 on each.

More players equals more specialization. Use football as an example. They have like 60 people on the team. There are at least 15-18 possible positions to play in football. Imagine if the quarterback had to also play linebacker and kicker and punter and kick returner.

#31

LaurenceR

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I never said 12, or even 10. I said 9, which I feel is a good size for a team to be. I also never said weekly, I said several months.

If you genuinely believe it's impossible to manage 10 people where certain players are suited to certain maps and roles, then that's fair enough. Personally I believe it's very possible and will start to distinguish good coaches and support staff from bad ones

And I'm not expecting OW to dramatically morph into anything, it already has subs and 8 man rosters if you look at the Korean scene, which is arguably the best in the world. Just because NA and EU are still catching up doesn't mean it isn't the future. With the amount of money being invested, teams will want to maximise their chances of winning. If that does turn out to be 6 man rosters then that's what we'll see. Personally I expected average rosters to be around 9 with a sub for Tank/Support/DPS with maybe one sub per game, but more likely it'll be rotating rosters over the course of a season of OWL

#32

foxes

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A good publicity move that also makes sense from a team needs perspective. Seagull, Taimou and EFFECT all share virtually no heroes in the pool which is surprisingly rare. Seagull is a projective specialist who can flex onto Zarya, Taimou is a hitscan specialist who can flex onto Hog and EFFECT is a top tier Tracer who can flex onto Doom.

Adding the bird only makes a versatile team even deeper and I'm excited to see how they utilize him in the future.

#34

Pixelfish

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Robokun, you better get those 50 hats ready for dining because OWL bout' to rock ur world

#35

KuroiRyuu9625

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The Envy owner mentioned what their plans for Seagull are in regards ti his spot on the team.

His tweet:
https://twitter.com/hastr0/status/911674388591849475

#36

zero

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I'm not a big fan of large rosters when only 6 players can actually play. Coördination between players get harder with more players with different playstyles.

And in-game hero changes are still an important aspect, I'm curious how substitutes actually gonna work out during the games. I can't imagine that teams will be allowed to switch players during the same map and often different stages of a map require a different hero.

#40

ThisOldDog

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I think this is a very good thing for EnvyUs, if they want to run Taimou on Roadhog or EFFECT on Zarya without running 3 tanks, they can sub Seagull on for Mickie and do well, but if they want to play 2-2-2 dive on Oasis or something they can keep Mickie over Seagull (Sidenote, if D.va stays relatively meta, i think DPS players will transition much more smoothly because it's more about doing damage then mitigating damage now) but then if the next map is Kings Row and they want to run a 2-2-2 with EFFECT on the Zarya, along with a good Hanzo, then they can, and let's go back to Oasis, let's say they want to run a strong Pharah but keep the d.va they sub in Seagull for Taimou, (Tracer is just too strong to not run her right now) but hey, if there's ever a double Sniper meta, Envy is good, anyway, this change overall adds alot more flexibility to EnvyUs without really taking anything away, it's a smart decision, unlike how IMT have 2 d.va players, it just doesn't add anything.

#41

accountseverywhere

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Man all my predictions are wrong. Im about to commit over.gg sudoku