#1

remiska

Viewership

Usa vs. New Zealand
As i said during katowice qualifier no way usa matches would have more viewers then korean.
At the beginning it had about 45k viewers but near the end it got to 52k (7k youtube).

TAIWAN vs. Brazil
More then previous match with avg around 54k and peak at 62k (6k youtube). Quite a few viewers from china (over 10k). I think during Taiwan vs Usa match number of viewers will be over 80k and mayve near 100k, still i dont think it'll beat last weeks peak.

United Kingdom vs. Belgium
After losing most of the chinese viewers it had about 52k at avg and 54k peak (suprisingly big increas in youtube viewer because it was up to 11k).

Germany vs. Israel
Least hyped match of the day and that was reflected in the number of viewers, around 46k (10k youtube) and peak at 48k.

Times of matches are terrible for korean viewers and there are not many popualr teams in this qualifier so i expect it to be less popular then Katowice and shanghai but more popular then sydney

Spectating

Untill 2nd half of Uk vs belgium match spectators showed nearly exclusivly dps players luckily later they showed a little bit more of beautifull perspective of zens balls. Again they kept camera on one player for very long at times (belgium attack on numbani sprees pharra for example). I noticed as well that at payload and hybrid maps spectetors show nearly excusivly attacking players perspective.
Your thoughts on spectating so far?
last weeks disscusion on spectating: https://www.over.gg/5104/owc-observing-katowice-edition#2

For exact hours of matches:
https://www.over.gg/5165/world-cup-2017-santa-monica-viewers-guide

Rest of the qualifiers
Katowice:
https://www.over.gg/5052/katowice-owc-qualifier-viewership#12
https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-katowice-qualifier
Shanghai:
https://www.over.gg/4815/number-of-viewers-for-the-overwatch-world-cup-shanghai-qualifiers#3
https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-shanghai-qualifier
Sydney:
https://www.over.gg/4893/number-of-viewers-sydney-qualifier#2
https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-sydney-qualifier

I'll post exact numbers as soon as their available
(i actualy deleted all todays data by mistake and had to recreate it from memory so it might be wrong in places :P)

#2

remiska

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https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/896099026302451712 most important question answered xD

#4

KuroiRyuu9625

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lol, he's a boss.

#3

KuroiRyuu9625

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I don't think the numbers will get much better for most of the other matches since even I'm not that vested in most of these, specially after seeing group H matches. I think the Taiwan vs USA should be the most viewed match of these groups probably followed by USA vs Brazil.

I'm actually thinking that only the UK has a real chance of making it to Blizzcon as the other teams are likely to get destroyed by Taiwan imo. That makes most of the matches in group H less interesting and/or meaningful, to me at least even though I'm still going to be watching.

Oh, and it's "Shanghai" <3

#5

remiska

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Well.. thats what i wrote :P it should be more popular then sydney but thats it (last week someone belived that team usa would bring 100k viewers and i have no idea whyesport in general is more popular in europe)
I think usa can deafet uk but well need to wait see

and i know just missclick

#6

KuroiRyuu9625

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I think USA can bring very high numbers but it probably needs to be against a team considered strong. Brazil was a bit underwhelming today and I do think they're weaker than team USA but the viewership should still be relatively good compared to most matches today.

I'm kinda hoping the Sunday match just breaks shit open with what should be the most competitive match of these groups other than maybe UK vs USA.

#7

remiska

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tomorrow well see how strong usa is

#8

remiska

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Viewership

There were 2 youtube streams for all of the qualifiers but today was the first day both of these streams had large number of viewers so ill mention both

USA vs. Brazil
First game of the day so it started not that high but after the half it was at 50k (13k and 8k youtube) and peaked by the end with 56k viewers (15k and 6k youtube).A lot of chinese viewers (nearly 10k)

TAIWAN vs. New Zealand
lost fair share of viewers after earlier match and had around 50k viewers (12k and 3k youtube), by the end of 1st half there were 55k (11k and 2k youtube) viewers and peaked with 57k during 2nd half (one of youtube streams got striked :P 4k viewers on 2nd)

UK vs. Israel
Not that hyped match peaked with 48k viewers what was interesting is striking 2nd youtube stream now bopth were dead :P

Germany vs. Belgium
Least popular teams playing so mach started with 45k and from here viewership kept declining, to 43k by the half time and was at 40k by the end of the match. (youtube dead)

#9

remiska

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Spectating

I feel like spectating so far is the worst out of all qualifiers, at times they kept camera at player after they died for pretty long and showing pretty much only attckers pov at payload (watch taiwan vs new zeland dorado new zelands push). This 2nd camera at times doesnt make sense yet still they force it (watching payload gets to checkpoint not contested needs 2 points of view? really?)
I feel like someone told spectators that boombox is great zen so they should show his pov so they do it but ignore every other support because "support pov so boring". Watching dps really isnt that entertaining at times but rather chaotic, give us more ana, zen, rein its really easier to watch this game from perspective of a static hero. Note i'm not saying to ignore dps.
I feel like spectators try to watch these "exciting" heros but a dragon blade from genjis perspective most of the time is chaotic not exciting.

#10

Winter

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To be fair, the games have been incredibly boring. Constant 4-0's tend to become very stale after a while.

#11

remiska

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and its an argument about what?

results rarely have anything to do with viewership, south korean matches were very one sided still got tons of viewers and for example poland vs austria in katowice was one of more exciting matches yet one of the matches with lowest number of viewers

Katowice had a lot more 4-0s then previous qualifiers, still was most popular by far, sydney was most competitive and was least popular, again results rarely have anything to do with viewership

#12

Winter

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If you know what the result is going to be, why would you want to tune in?

#13

remiska

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again - result of game between south korea and austria was pretty obvieus still over 100k viewers watched it
your argument is stupid

#15

KuroiRyuu9625

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It's a sound argument, as I mentioned the SK team was fun to watch because of how they play. I don't think any of the other expected blowouts generated as much interest.

Not sure how you can't see that side of the argument.

#20

Winter

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How is it stupid lmao? Why would anyone from Korea have any interest in watching the UK vs Belgium? Korea are popular both in the West and East, which most Western countries don't have in the East. No to mention the ridiculous time zone differences. Use your head before calling someone's argument stupid.

#14

KuroiRyuu9625

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I think he means that aside from a few matches most weren't being looked forward to. With results being so lopsided and participating teams not having as much "it" factor as the SK team it's not weird to see interest for most of these matches dip.

I think the USA vs Taiwan match should have good viewership but the others probably won't because they don't really mean anything, aside from maybe the UK vs Germany one. Even then I'm not sure how much people in general care about it.

I think that even though Katowice had a lot of 4-0s, just seeing the Koreans play was fun, and the Canada vs Russia game was very fun to watch (for me at least). I think having more teams closer in strength and fewer blowouts, or more teams that dare to be creative like the SK team, though that may have been cause they could afford to do w/e they wanted, is what the matches need to garnish more interest.

I'm guessing that Blizzcon numbers should reflect this. Oh and I agree that spectating's been very meh for me. I'm not sure how much information non OW maniacs can get out of it so that might also have an impact on how interesting the game is after you've tuned in for a bit, or a previous match.

#19

remiska

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"it" factor as the SK team
I think the USA vs Taiwan match should have good viewership

so you disagree with me and then say that
thats exactly what i said, not results but teams bring viewers

#21

KuroiRyuu9625

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You're saying results have nothing to do with it, and I mentioned that expected stomping probably do bring lower views unless one of both of the teams are really fun/interesting to watch.

I think most people that aren't hardcore OW fans wouldn't be interested in watching a match that was predicted to be a horrendous massacre if it were not for the entertainment value of one of the teams. In my opinion the SK matches were an example of that. 4-0s were mostly expected but I think people still wanted to see how they were gonna do it after what they showed in that first match.

#16

penda

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Winter is saying your argument is stupid because you said "results rarely have anything g to do with viewership which is true but also not really an argument

#17

KuroiRyuu9625

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By the way, Remiska, I'm not sure how old you are, but you tend to sound like an angry 16 y/o when people disagree with you. You may want to fix that since it brings 0 value to your arguments and actually devalues the legit posts you make.

I don't understand the difficulty here.

#18

robokun87

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If there are 100k or even half that consistently tuning in for some horrific and utter dog shit 4-0 stomps then I'm confident the proper matches should gain more and this Remiska sounds like a proper plonker, of course results have a huge impact do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

#22

robokun87

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Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers for various reasons but how many gave a shit about UK stomping Belgium and Israel? I'm hardly a hardcore OW fan so didn't watch these piss poor bad excuse for matches but I will watch the playoffs and considering there's very little doubt I'm hardly the only one with that mentality I'm sure results and matches DO make a difference as they do in every other sport, how many people watch the Superbowl every year compared to a standard NFL match? how many tune in for the Champions League final compared to the qualifying rounds involving teams from Gibraltar? etc etc etc

I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel so your argument is stupid remiska.

#36

isilering

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Isn't it exactly what remiska wrote? That people watch matches of interesting teams? Like you said a lot of people would tune in to watch Champions League final even if it was the most boring match ever and not many would watch "qualifying rounds involving teams from Gibraltar" even if it was the most exciting match in the whole tournament. Same goes for sk vs usa and uk vs israel.
What you wrote is exactly what remiska is saying so why and how do you disagree with it?

#23

remiska

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my argument is teams bring viewers not results

Ok let me explain coz again there are people writing completly oposing things in one comment

If there are 100k or even half that consistently tuning in for some horrific and utter dog shit 4-0 stomps then I'm confident the proper matches should gain more

and then

do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

i agree that A LOT of people would tune in but the thing is korea vs usa would be a total stomp and usa would get demolished 4-0 (or whatever the formant would be) so its not the result that would matter for number of viewers but that 2 popular teams are playing right?

So winter said that because games were 4-0s people dont watch and i said thats a stupid argument and that people watch games for teams then you defended your argument with

How is it stupid lmao? Why would anyone from Korea have any interest in watching the UK vs Belgium? Korea are popular both in the West and East, which most Western countries don't have in the East. No to mention the ridiculous time zone differences. Use your head before calling someone's argument stupid.

And only thing you mentioned is that korea is a pupular team and thats clearly argument supporting my point

Here i again keep saying that people watch games for teams not results and you kuroi said

You're saying results have nothing to do with it, and I mentioned that expected stomping probably do bring lower views unless one of both of the teams are really fun/interesting to watch.

I think most people that aren't hardcore OW fans wouldn't be interested in watching a match that was predicted to be a horrendous massacre if it were not for the entertainment value of one of the teams. In my opinion the SK matches were an example of that. 4-0s were mostly expected but I think people still wanted to see how they were gonna do it after what they showed in that first match.

and thats again supporting my point that what brings most viewers is popularity of team not what result is expected, and i do agree with 1st paragraph but its a very small percent of viewers

Winter is saying your argument is stupid because you said "results rarely have anything g to do with viewership which is true but also not really an argument

yes thats not argument thats a statemant but i posted arguments supporting this statemant but ill repeat them here. Sydney was the most competitive qualifier thus prodably having most interesting games and yet its by far the least popular and that shows that people tune into matches of teams they are interested in not to watch interesting matches (again not results but teams matter)

and about it

By the way, Remiska, I'm not sure how old you are, but you tend to sound like an angry 16 y/o when people disagree with you. You may want to fix that since it bring 0 value to your arguments and actually devalues the legit posts you make.

im old enaugh but what gets me angry is when people write totaly oposing things and if you want i can show you exactly where last time i got triggered perdone i argued with disagreed with my argument and then agreed with the same argument by someone else but writen kindely

and here again people "disagree" with me by writing that teams like sk bring a lot of viewers but thats exactly what im saying

Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers for various reasons but how many gave a shit about UK stomping Belgium and Israel?

why does everyone "disagree" with my comment and then keeps posting arguments supporting me?

and this

I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel so your argument is stupid remiska.

but thats exactly what im saying it will have a lot of viewers even though usa will get demolished coz these are 2 popular teams so how is my argument stupid if you post argument supporting it?

I said that match between sk and austria was super popular even though it was stomp and everyone disagrees with it by writing that

thats because korea was playing

but thats exactly my point so how can you disagree, by saying what i said

#25

Winter

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But your points are so contradicting. You've just said that if Korea played the USA it would get lots of viewers because they're the two popular teams. Yet you've just stated that the USA matches have been peaking on average around 55k whilst Korea was having 100k. Surely if people were tuning in for the teams then they'd both have the same viewership? If people know what the result is, only the real eSport lovers are going to tune in. The playoffs will have a much higher viewership, not because of the teams, but because the games will be much closer.

#28

remiska

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ok look at it this way
-sk team has 100k fans or people interested in and lets make it their base viewers, lets say they play super boring match so some people dont watch so there are 80k viewers (exaggerated)
-now austria, much less popular so it has 10k fans but thay play super interesting match so more people tune in and there are 20k viewers (exaggerated)

learn to understand what you read and as you said yourself "use your head"

still there is no way they will have more viewers then sk because sk is more popular team

and about usa, usa is much less popular then sk thats why
you need to look at every teams popularity seperatly

If people know what the result is, only the real eSport lovers are going to tune in

well only esport fans would know the result before hand

FAN BASES are what matters to viewership (i called it earlier popularity) every team has different size of fanbase and thus you cant compare one teams popularity to anothers

#29

KuroiRyuu9625

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I think if we want to make that kind of comparison we'd have to isolate westerns viewers from eastern viewers. Then we can see the fluctuation for each group separately, or else we'd never have an appropriate comparison if one team has a much larger base viewership than the other.

#31

remiska

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but thats exactly the point, what matters is base viewership

korea has large base viewership and even though results were obvieus a lot of people watched its matches

sydney teams have small base viewership and thats why even though games were interesting people didnt really watch this qualifier

#24

robokun87

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"results rarely have anything to do with viewership"

I think that's wrong and while I agree it's the teams that bring viewers not always results I'm still confident more Koreans would tune in to watch SK play a real competitor than just stomping everyone so it's a bit of both, if UK made it all the way to the final to play SK you trying to tell me more people wouldn't turn in than they did for the stomps of Belgium and Israel?

Not every single SK fan turned in just because it's 4-0 because I'm almost certain some of them said what's the point it's a stomp but I'll watch the harder games so for me personally results have a big impact so it's a bit retarded to consider someone arguing that as stupid.

I guess it's pointless debating this just wait and see the viewership figure come the end of the WC, if the numbers are the same you're right remiska but if more people tune in then I guess you're wrong, time will tell.

#26

KuroiRyuu9625

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Reading through all the points of references here these are the two trains of thought I believe are prevalent.

Results don't matter since people will only watch games with teams they like regardless of the expected outcome.
Result do matter because people will only watch games with teams they care about if the outcome is expected to be very obvious and lopsided.

Different spin on one subject and I think both are correct depending on how you look at it. Personally I think a 16 team tournament would also have been fine and probably would have yielded fewer blowouts, but at the same time reached fewer people in terms of national pride.

I prefer a higher level of competition, but Blizz might want to just generate as much potential interest as possible.

#32

remiska

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1st point is just shallower 2nd
and i dont know who agrees with 2nd

every team hase fan base and thats what matters about viewership mainly, then you add other variables like how interesting match is going to be what time its gona be and so on but these are only small (when compared to fanbase) changes

what started this whole disscusion is argument that because this quyalifier has onesided matches its not popular and i said its not why but because it doesnt have that many interesting teams

everyone disagrees by writing arguments supporting my point

btw when i argued last time persone i argued with disagreed with my arguments then agreed with same arguments writen by someone else and i got downvoted by writing thats a hipocrisy and here people write arguments supporting my point and disagree with me

#33

KuroiRyuu9625

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I understand, but what I mean to say is that if you separate Asian viewership from Western viewership you should get to see a better picture of the fluctuations that happen purely based on expected scores vs interesting match-ups.

As far as I can tell the greatest source of fluctuation in viewership is the Asian contingent. It's very possible that they don't care about expected scores or great match-ups and just want to see their representatives.

That should give us a better idea of where the data is headed. Blizzcon should somewhat even out those results just because of the magnitude of the event but I think we can expect similar spikes in viewership when the SK, TWN or CN teams are playing.

#35

remiska

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not really
1st only people who know what expected scores are, are poeple who are really interested in scene so theyll prodably watch most of the matches anyway

2nd biggest fluctuations comes from (as i said already so many times) from popularity of team/fan base (it doesnt matter if its asian or not, you just separated it in your brain because there are a lot of asian viewers and they tuned only to watch their team play while western scene is more connected thus people frim europe more or less but care about other eu teams so they tune into more matches) during frogue qualification match there were over 12k viewers on french stream and most likely more on english stream compared to usuall 2k-3k and again this match was popular because of fan base of rogue

3rd again spikes during SK, TWN or CN matches are due to popularity of these teams, again you disagree with my statemant by writing argument supporting it

4th most fans dont care about expected scores they just tune in to watch their team play (btw thats what blizzard said they want to do, build local fanbases "supporting" their teams so even they seem to agree that what matters to popularity of team is fanbase)

5th " you should get to see a better picture of the fluctuations that happen purely based on expected scores vs interesting match-ups." thats not true, what youll be left is popularity of teams amongst western viewers during matches of team russia there were over 10k viewers on russian stream compared to usuall 2k (look also argument about french viewers)

#38

KuroiRyuu9625

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"you just separated it in your brain because there are a lot of Asian viewers and they tuned only to watch their team play"

Interesting assumption you make there, I image you know what I'm thinking to once again make a statement to which you lack insight.

At this point I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm trying to explain how we might get a better picture of the point you're trying to make vs the point others are trying to make because you can't seem to envision a situation where an opinion different from your might still be valid.

I'm actually going to pull back from trying to explain my point of view because you will either ignore my talking point or spin it to match your rhetoric. Even though I openly agree with some aspects of your arguments you tend to not be receptive to others so it makes conversing and debating with you either very frustrating, pointless, or impossible.

#39

remiska

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whats the point other try to make? ok lets investigate

1) Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers

2)I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel

3)Why would anyone from Korea have any interest in watching the UK vs Belgium?

4) of course results have a huge impact do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

(this one is kinda stupid coz result of usa vs sk would also be 4-0)

5) while I agree it's the teams that bring viewers not always results

these are all things that support my point
most of this conversation im not trying to convince anyone to my point (because everyone says arguments agreeing with my point) but make people realise that their arguments are supporting my point not against it in any way, but right now im trying to convince you that im not trying to convince anyone to my point coz they already agree with it

#27

robokun87

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I'm still 100% confident results do matter and more will turn in when the matches become proper matches and less of a shit show but as I said previously, time will tell.

#30

remiska

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Its teams that bringe most viewers

AGAIN thats exactly what im saying so how "time will tell" if im write if you already agreed with my point here?

And yet still in playoffs korean matches will have more viewers then australia, why? not because it will have more interesting matches but because its more popular team

#37

remiska

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Again more people will watch super popular teams play even ifs its "a shit show" then not popular teams that play "proper match"
and you said it yourself here:

Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers

so stop disagreeing with me (and yourself)

#41

robokun87

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Yet even MORE people would watch if it was SK vs France so I don't quite understand what's going on here, you're telling me results don't matter to viewers and people would watch SK vs France regardless and they would but I think more would watch it if it was a final.

Just because I said SK would bring in mass viewers doesn't mean I'm disagreeing with myself, my point still stands they would bring in even MORE viewers in harder matches which unless I'm absolutely retarded is what you're arguing against, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're implying 100k people watch SK regardless of how difficult the match is right? yet I'm saying even more would watch SK if they played against harder teams in the playoffs, which is something you disagree with, right?

How can me saying results matter disagree with you when you say results don't matter, explain that to me.

#42

remiska

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Which match would bring more viewers, sk vs usa or sk vs taiwan then?

#34

remiska

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I seriously dont know if people cant read or what

i wrote that what matters is popularity of team not how interesting match, got downvoted and people keep arguing against me with arguments like this

Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers for various reasons but how many gave a shit about UK stomping Belgium and Israel?

and

If there are 100k or even half that consistently tuning in for some horrific and utter dog shit 4-0 stomps then I'm confident the proper matches should gain more and this Remiska sounds like a proper plonker, of course results have a huge impact do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

and

how many tune in for the Champions League final compared to the qualifying rounds involving teams from Gibraltar? etc etc etc

and

I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel so your argument is stupid remiska.

and

if UK made it all the way to the final to play SK you trying to tell me more people wouldn't turn in than they did for the stomps of Belgium and Israel?

you do realise these are not arguments against my statemant but actualy supporting it?

#40

abalerek

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i dont know why everyone attacks remiska when they actualy write same thing he does

#43

robokun87

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If SK played USA it might get 100k viewers yet if USA had an amazing team and everyone expected the result to be very close and it was in the grand final I'm sure it will gain more than 100k so I still don't get why you say results don't matter and it's just the teams that gain viewers.

I'd be shocked if the viewership peaked already considering almost every match was pretty shit and 4-0 stomps, a lot of folk will only watch the latter stages of a tournament when it gets good regardless of who it is playing, I still fail to see the point but then again I'm retarded.

#44

Kiwifruit

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I think the main problem here is thatvremiska is making a very valid point but he is arguing instead of discussing which makes people not want to agree. Remiska you mentioned a previous thread where someone explained your argument nicely and everyone agreed suddenly. It doesnt take a genius to work out why that happened, no one is going to agree with you is youre calling them stupid, even if you are right, maybe try being that nice person explaining it yourself from the get go and people will agree. On the topic of the discussion i again think remiska makes very good points. The fact of the matter is that popular teams get more viewership no matter the match. Close matches get viewership if the teams are popular and eill get more than a stomp but unpopular close matches are still gonna get little viewership. SK vs some shit team will get less than SK vs frogue but you also hage to consider that good teams are also popular teams so frogue will also bring in a lot of viewers. It is a combination of all things but the underlying viewership numbers come from teams with fluctuations caised by match quality is my opinion. prepares for wrath of argument thread

#45

remiska

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https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-santa-monica-qualifier
as i said this qualifier places over sydney but under shanghay and katowice in popularity but i expect usa vs taiwan to get close to 80k viewers
(for a comparable data look at twitch stats stats)

Santa Monica OWC qualifier viewership, observing

Viewership

Spectating

Viewership

Spectating