Florida Mayhem release six from team

#1

blakku

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https://twitter.com/FLMayhem/status/1037415180206915584

#2

robokun87

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Not surprised but at the same time not looking good for Europeans, a lot of good European players getting dropped and no sign of a new EU slot for OWL, the future looks Asian.

#4

JakobCP

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Who says the team has to be EU for EU players to sign onto it?

#26

poi98

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This is right. But if you are an NA teams you will always prefer Na players over Eu ones for a local market/fanbase strategy. Next season we will have home stadium. Never understimate the value of the local market.

#32

hamsolo

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Never over estimate the same market. Take a quick look at any US based NHL roster for confirmation.

#37

JakobCP

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Stop talking out of your ass and making claims like "you will always prefer NA players over EU players". We can clearly see based off of season one that region has absolutely nothing to do with which players a team decides to pick up. Dallas Fuel had only two players from NA, London had an all Korean lineup, and Philadelphia had the most diverse team in the league. Teams pick up players based off of merit and performance in game, nothing else than that.

#18

Hi

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There is one slot right? Paris is confirmed isn't it? Still though not looking good.

#29

Emaxmagnus

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Paris hasn't been confirmed

#41

Hi

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oh

#3

Diakko

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No sign of new EU slot? Isn't Paris in EU?

#5

Wombat

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Miro, Chips and now Misfits

Bye bye old OW

#6

Rooky

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Why Manneten he was litterally the teams most consistent player (and the seccond best player on the team) shame he was paired with the worst main tank then one who could barely speak English

#7

End3rWiggn

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I probably would have kept Manneten.

#8

Rooky

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Actually the most underated player in owl

#17

Splicesomase

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He probably chose to leave himself knowing that his teammates would be kicked. I assume management would tell him that they were going to release some other guys and manneten didnt want to be a part of the vision for the new team. He can be pretty confident that be would get picked up. Tviq will likely just be either a backup/mentoring player or a full fledged coach. I have no doubt that would be a good fit for him. Of course it is his choice given that so far as we know the team wants to keep him.

#9

zero

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Logix & Manneten shouldn't have troubles finding another OWL team. For the others, I fear the worst.

#21

ideekae

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zuppeh lowkey owns

#27

poi98

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Zuppeh is one of the best ana imho.

#55

AvengingDrake78

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Zuppeh is great, he just got coupled with Zebbosai who sucks on Mercy.

#10

DixR

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Im really confused, do they want to build an all korean roster? Why keep Tviq then, to trade him? If so they should have kept Logix and Manneten as well.

#12

Valrossen

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Perhaps he would be moving over to a coaching role? He's a very experienced player.

#28

poi98

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No full korean roster...the owner confirmed it

#11

Admirable

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FeelsBadMan

#13

wentaway

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Nota a fan of this move, at all.

For sure the team underperformed, a lot, changes were expected, but this shows how's "just" the players who pay the blunt.

This slot/staff picked up one of the most succesfull teams in pre-OWL era and didn't have the ability to keep it at least competitive in the first season, so what they do now? They drop basically all players to buy some wins.

Is this where OWL is going (and no I'm not speaking of the all Korean stuff)? How in the heck should people get attached to a franchise? For its colors? For its name?

Maybe for you guys in US is different, if you are from Florida that's enough, but why should I care about the Mayhem? 'cause they might win more matches? They are not the Florida Mayhem anymore.

#22

KuroiRyuu9625

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That's how localized teams work.

They are the Florida Mayhem, regardless of who's playing for them. And what you named as reasons for being attached to the team is how it works. I'm going to root for Toronto...because it's the team that represent Toronto. Not because Ryujekong or any other player is there at the moment.

Not sure why you' re shocked by this.

#23

wentaway

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The container is not the contents, but again that was a personal point of view, should have probably made myself more clear, I was sure the "why should I care" was enough, apparently it wasn't.

Oh and yes, since I'm not from Florida, or any other of the locations of OWL franchises, being London the closest one to me (localization wise), I pick a team to cheer for based not on their hometown, that frankly to me means nothing.

#24

KuroiRyuu9625

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Then you don't care, simple as that. Find a team you want to care for and tick with them...or don't, up to you. But this is what the League wants to achieve.

#25

wentaway

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Entire roster swaps on a yearly base is what the league wants to achieve?

That's what I'm not into, and so far this has been the most "severe" case, even the Dragons kept more players and dropped instead part of the staff.

#35

Xanoush

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You do know that the Dragons released 9 players and only have 1 assistant coach on the roster, right? Florida is definitely not the most severe compared to them.

Also this will only be an occurrence for teams at the bottom of the league that really need a shake up to move up the standings. Which is something that Florida and Shanghai really needed to do.

#39

wentaway

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That is why a league with no relegation and promotion isn't something I like (personal opinion of course).

But back to the topic, Shangai released basically the whole coaching staff, not "just" the players, Florida ONLY released the players, implying the staff had no fault in it:

-The org only picked up 6 players, only team in the league.
-Check their vlogs, they didn't have a place to practice (except for the Blizzard arena) and their house was the furthest away of all the teams.
-Only 1 coach for basically the whole season except for 1-2 weeks.
-Their better performing dps player is starting to have insecurity issues, so they bench him instead of benching the underperforming one.
-The first coach took a leave for stage 4, he was stressed.
-The new main coach decided that wasn't worth training the players so basically gave up (according to Logix, so it might very well not be true, but nobody denied it officially)

Are we sure it was JUST the players' fault? I mean they literally kept everyone in the staff, while keeping only TviQ, as he's the easiest to "sell" for fans.

EDIT: just cause in hindsight, I could have expected it, from the team that decided to drop their main tank to replace him with a Genji main, but that's ancient history.

#42

KuroiRyuu9625

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Again, the goal of this league is to replicate professional sports leagues. Regardless of your, or anyone's, emotional attachment. This is par for the course.

#44

wentaway

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Objective facts:
-No team/franchise in any professional sport drops its full roster (or 95% of it) after one single failed season, and it usually are coaches to pay the blunt before or together with the players.

-Most leagues in traditional sports do have promotions and relegations, the ones that don't (main examples are NA sports), have a draft system in place, which is missing in the OWL, and all also have players' unions.

Personal (very personal) opinion:
Teams are usually picked by fans for various reasons, being their town/state's team, for the players that play in it or other random reasons (colors/jerseys, style of promotion/communication) in this order.
If you remove the hometown factor, and they get rid of all the players everytime a season goes bad, what's left is what I consider fluff, nothing wrong in liking a team for those other reasons, they are just not for me.

That said this is my last on this topic, as I feel like I'm speaking with Nanzer trying to explain him how to organize his league, and have to do that stuff (not with Nanzer lol) on a daily basis.

#48

KuroiRyuu9625

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Those teams/franchises also have much larger rosters. And they do drop/trade in numbers like we've seen in OWL.

Drafting was something they looked at but it's not a mechanic that replicates being relegated. That would be the role of Contenders acting like a "minor league" for OWL.

I get that these layers being dropped carries emotion for people but that's not relevant to how these types of leagues do business.

continue thread →

#36

zero

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Unless you are from a city/country that is represented by a team, you don't get attached to it. There are no other reasons to root for a team besides you like the players they have. Sure, after a while you get might start getting fond of a team, but certainly not after 1 season and certainly not if they cut their entire team and pick up others.

#43

KuroiRyuu9625

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With limited spots, even at the peak number of teams that Blizz wants, all countries are obviously not going to get a team. So if you want to pick a team you might need to find a more broad reason to root for them, or just follow the players you like around.

People will find reasons to like teams, whether it's the team or the players is obviously up to them - and yes, even after just 1 season or players being dropped.

#45

LordOfHorns

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I mean this just isn’t true. You pick a team, for whatever reason, and root for it. I support the LA Valiant, have a jersey, and that’s because they were the Immortals roster. When soon and Custa joined the team I still supported them, same with Space.

#51

Babouh

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That may be true for you but when boston dropped dream I lost interest in their team. Also how many viewers started to root for GLA once they picked Fissure and started to look like an entity? I couldn't care less about one organization or the others, I only root for the players I like. Until Paris joins next season of course :)

#56

LordOfHorns

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#50

Babouh

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You can't deny a lot of people cheer for a team solely for their players and not for the colour, name or hometown factor. Some don't give a crap about where they live or where they come from (they don't belong anywhere) others (like wentaway and 95% of the EU viewerbase) have no team to identify to in the league. Also I bet a lot of viewers are huge fans of one or many players just because they like their attitude or they followed their story since beta, and that's the whole point of the behind the scene videos the teams publish : building a story through their players and staff. All in all I'd wager it's a pretty big market they discard by firing their whole team and erasing the identity they built

#14

lyl

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a bad team. And very overrated players. That includes Tviq who also needs to go tbfh

#15

Pixelfish

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thank mr. Logix

#16

verb

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One of the three most disappointing teams of the past season (Seoul Dallas, Florida). Wholesale changes needed to be made tbh.

#19

KoleeKo

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Don’t sleep on runaway joining Florida, and using the neon Mayhem colors... just a thought

#20

wentaway

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That's a very likely outcome, and I'm honestly sad that such a great team could be picked up by this franchise.
I know I sound pissed, and I am, I would love to see Runaway in OWL (they are amazing), but they are the exact opposite of what the Mayhem just did.

#30

CamRa

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when you try your best but you don’t sucswede

#31

wentaway

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Sad for the players, but damn CamRa can't not upfrag this. :)

#33

hamsolo

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On the topic of Runaway to Florida, it isn't such a big leap

Exhibit A:
https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/thumb/6/6c/Runawaylogo.png/600px-Runawaylogo.png

Exhibit B:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0057/4966/9932/products/Mayhem-Miami-Tee-Black-Back_1841x.png?v=1531353755

#34

KoleeKo

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As poi stated above the owner came out and said no all-Korean roster and they were signing some western players on twitter. There is still a chance imo because people have made a lot of claims that rumors weren’t happening while they still did, but in this scenario it doesn’t seem likely.

#38

accountseverywhere

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Too bad. They showed some promise at the end. Super volatile league right now. What team will have the balls to stick with thier players? Not florida

#40

wentaway

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Hopefully next year will be better, for the players I mean as I enjoyed what litle I could watch.

Even if just 'cause OWL is going to run out of players to pick soon if every year the 2 bottom teams release their full rosters.

#52

accountseverywhere

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The game changes the meta changes. Even the psychology changes. But its hard to be successful when you swap your players so often. Im thinking of dallas and nrg as examples of how swapping doesnt work. If anything you just want room to add one or two players who can cover a new meta. And you want players like seagul or mickie. Adaptable, experienced, and bringing something extra to the table. Then more than anything you want to stick to your players as much as you can. One of the main things holding people back is their own psycology and the teams dropping players all the time adds a new dimension.

Im not trying to say you should ALWAYS stick by your team. But I think there will be teams that do that prove that it can be a really good strategy.

#53

wentaway

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Absolutely agree with you, and this (in my own little experience) is also the best way to handle ANY kind of team, not just esports ones or classical sports, but also other working teams.

If the team you are responsible for underperforms on a large scale, often the reason is not (only) the team, it's you as a manager, you failed them and you failed your customers.

This is what really pissed me off in this move from Florida, I've been a manager of a team of about 30-40 persons for some years now, when my department goes really bad, the first in line in front of the CEO, directors, etc... it's me, as it's supposed to be.

That doens't mean lazy/sloppy workers (players in this case), should get out scot-free, but if in MONTHS of working together you as a manager couldn't find a solution, it's also your fault.

Sorry I'll stop here I swear but these things really get me damn mad..

#46

wentaway

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Also:
https://twitter.com/benspoont/status/1037436133888671745

But:
https://twitter.com/zappisOW/status/1037608712859541504

Drama asides, why don't the OWL players have an union? They are CLEARLY the weakest link in the whole league, and it shouldn't be like this.

#54

murasaki

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agree, it feels like the players are getting shafted since asides from OWL it is impossible to make a living from playing competitive OW due to blizz throttling external tournaments and offering next to no prize money for Contenders

#47

Reficule

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Damn Logix is super good. RIP