This ain't harsh though this is straight up savagery so the roster must be THAT bad, not really sure why they put a guy like HuK in charge of making a roster when they spend $20m+ on the spot, isn't like he's a HUGE OW name and afaik he only worked on 1 or 2 events and played briefly right? a ton of responsibility for someone like him, I'd much rather put someone like internethulk in charge of picking a roster.

Am I the only one that thinks Dallas Energy would make more sense and fit into e-sports more than Fuel? either way I ain't impressed.

I agree, can't help but feel they had a look at the LA Kings and wanted something as "epic" even if it is very generic for an e-sports team, do hope the logo is amazing though or it just smacks of them not giving a shit so we will see.

I'm about to buy some G Fuel tomorrow, or should that be Dallas Fuel? name is shit, much rather they got called Dallas Divas and all wore blue wigs on LAN.

Unless they plan on bringing out some Dallas Fuel energy drink or a Nascar team.

Gladiators has more to do with OW/gaming in general than fuel that sounds like an energy drink but both names are pretty shit, then again how many of these big US franchises across any major sport have names that sound good.

Still a massive match for the C9 guys, imagine they go and beat the best EU team on LAN, surely they will have people looking at them even if it's as a sub, if Nevix keeps playing this well surely a few of these OWL teams will snap him up.

To be fair I can't help but feel 90% of the matches in Europe have been pointless after the first week so this isn't less pointless to me.

"we decided a few weeks back that we’re going to finish Contenders then go try our chances with OWL teams and hope that we will get recruited."

I'm sorry but let's be realistic here, do these guys honestly think they will be picked up by an OWL team when they can't even compete in Europe? think too many people are very naive and unrealistic and should just be happy with what they've got.

I know it's 12 hence why I said "if OWL allowed a 24 man roster" since your argument was basically if OWL allow it you might as well utilize it, which doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure you're also aware the income from these OWL teams will be a fraction of what an actual sports team makes a season so don't expect Kraft or whatever to pump millions a season on a 12 man roster when the income isn't worth it.

Just because the buy in spots are $20m don't expect the owners to pump another $10m on top of that, surely you don't expect the income of OWL to be that high, I may have an unrealistic idea of how much money is in play but then again so do you, unless you have been told what capital all teams will earn then please enlighten us.

The money involved isn't shocking to me only the fact some people believe these teams will have 12 man rosters but as I said, time will tell.

Anyway I'm not getting into another back and forth of speculation where none of us have enough solid facts to argument with, we don't know if teams will field a 12 man roster or how much money they will make profit each season so don't waste your energy over it, I ain't. It's all he said she said nonsense I ain't got time for.

So by that logic if OWL allowed a 24 man roster then you would expect people to utilize that space since it's literally applying the rules that have been announced? come on man, that's merely a rule in place to stop people hoarding every Korean under the sun and preventing other teams getting them, I will be absolutely shocked and eat about 50 hats if there is any one team in OWL that will feel the need to recruit 12 players.

Putting 12 players under 1 roof will require a shit ton of food and looking after, you will need about 3 staff to cater to them and manage them plus good luck figuring out a scrim schedule in that case so all in all you're paying about 15 people to live in some mansion and doing scrims with every comp known to man.

Doesn't sound realistic to me but we will see.

What's changed then? can't think of a single game in the history of e-sports that's had any more than 1 sub at most so why are people suddenly expecting OWL teams to have a 12 man roster, because the meta changes on a weekly basis? hardly mate, it's good to have options indeed but how you gonna scrim with an 10 man roster? good luck micromanaging that as well as paying about a million dollars a season in wages alone plus the fact you will need an absolute mansion of a gaming house adding to the cost.

Still can't believe how people suddenly expect OW to morph into something completely different because of OWL.

One thread is about 40 posts of speculation this is a thread of an announcement, makes sense to create a new thread.

Don't say that here mate trust me, to most people Seagull is an absolute god and will dominate the OWL don't say anything otherwise.

I've never been a fan so I can't wait to see him in action.

Considering how dire Europe is now with Misfits going to OWL only leaving Gigantti as only the real powerhouse of European OW it wouldn't be too hard for Alicus to put together a team capable of being the best Europe has to offer and potentially doing well enough to warrant financial support for the next OWL season.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he made an OW team that lasted about 5 months and had more players than half the rest of the teams in Europe combined and afaik didn't win anything worth noting, as a personality he's been a success since he's talked about and people rate him but as a manager of LK/C9 I don't view it as anything special. Who was the guy in charge of Movistar Riders who came kind of out of the blue and where fantastic till they disbanded? never heard of that guy being mentioned.

Maybe not but Seagull is still better (according to the fanboys) and considering how much bad press Immortals have had this week thanks to the Brazilian CS roster having Seagull in the lineup will bring some positive press and I mean who else will he join where he will be a starter and not a sub, but hey we will find out soon enough.

Interesting how the EU scene survives considering only Misfits are good enough for the OWL and none of the other teams can barely stay alive long enough to finish a competition, if they do another season of Contenders in Europe it will have about 2 established teams with the rest being mix teams.

Not really sure why people kind of act like the guy is a god with "what he's built" all he did was grab random players and put them into a team, if I had a million pounds I could do the same with the free agents out there and make a top EU team out of it considering the scene in EU is hardly deep and anyone with half a braincell should have red flags when C9 come to you wanting to take over your roster when every single person on this planet knows it was nowhere near good enough to warrant a spot in the OWL.

I have no idea what Alicus done before LK but bringing in about 10 free agents, mixing them up every week to play OW then selling them down the river is hardly what I would consider someone with mad skills we can't live without, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm probably miles away but for me the most realistic team he will end up on is Immortals, considering how shit they've been recently he would be a starter and bring all the fan fair with him which won't do Immortals any harm at all.

C9 came in and took a promising European team, changed them about every week then finally kicked them to the kerb after a month or two, for what? did they genuinely want this team for OWL or did they have eyes on a Korean team this entire time? can't help but feel C9 just wanted to completely fuck things up to "test" things because I see no other reason for this.

Wonder if Alicus will go back to making his own organization so he can pick up the 100 or so free agents in Europe and make a team or 15 out of them, personally think he should make a Guess Who? organization where it's 6 different players every week for the luls.

According to his twitter IDDQD is still part of NRG unless he got the boot a few minutes ago...

I'll pick Misfits for two reasons, first being they are European and I'm biased so hope to god they can go over there and represent EU and two they have Tviq and Logix who are very entertaining players to watch, never been a fan of Envyus I can't stand the constant laughing they do even when losing, kinda get the feeling they ain't taking shit seriously but that's just me.

Very interesting to see how C9 do now and how Koreans can perform outside of Korea against the best of the rest so will be rooting for them as well.

Has Vallu buggered off already? be sad if he was the first to leave considering he's been dog shit recently and needs to perform if he honestly expects anyone to bother signing him.

It's quite a small organization isn't it I guess they just couldn't find the support needed for the OWL and the team hardly breeds confidence in people willing to pump 20M into it recently so all things considered can't say I'm surprised.

Never considered Australia to be much of an e-sport country at least in the games I've followed over the years so personally wouldn't like to see them get a spot, do agree with Germany though and I would add in somewhere in Sweden since it's been a haven for e-sports titles for over a decade and they deserve a spot as much as anyone else.

It's still shocking to me they picked London when e-sports is hardly big there over Germany or Sweden etc. Even France might be a decent spot, they have good options for more EU spots but can't help but feel the OWL will be 90% NA for the time being anyway.

I can understand people missing things as it's a bit of a hectic game to say the least but I can't understand people trying to be a comedian as much as this guy, there's far too much dicking around and immaturity at times which might cater to the 12 year old you tubers but not old bastards like me, I just want commentators to tell me what's going on at the time it's happening and talk about either what happened or what they think might happen in between maps not take that time to be immature and try and crack jokes.

Maybe I'm just biased because when I started watching OW it was ZP and Hex so for me those two are still the best, do like Mitch and JK as well though even if they can be slightly immature as well but at least the play by play is on point.

We all look at it from different points of views but mine is games have more chance of being popular when they are new since they have built up a lot of interest, don't forget OW had a closed then open beta as well so the game has been out long enough to warrant more than 15k viewers watching the best in the world, I don't know exactly how many players OW has but it is millions right? yet only a very small fraction of them turn in to watch the e-sports side of it so my question is, where are all these viewers going to come from? the game probably won't build up much more of a player base now since it's not very often games work that way.

Do you think granny and grandad sitting at home in Texas will suddenly turn into the OWL because Blizzard advertise it? I honestly can't remember Valve advertising CS too much even in the 1.5 days yet it was still popular, sure CS is 15 years old or whatever but that too was new at a time when e-sports wasn't anywhere near as big as it is now so no excuses.

People always come to this forum with such positivity but it's not based on anything yet me being on the other side of the fence is just a negative nancy who gets downvoted, how do you all know I'm wrong? how can you honestly sit there and say you're right? it's easy to sit here and say OWL will be the biggest success in e-sports and will eventually fill 15k arenas and get 200k viewers yet it's just as easy to sit here and say it will flop, if that hurts your feelings then tough shit, we have different opinions don't cry because mine isn't the same as yours.

It's also incredibly naive to think a bit of advertising solves the problem and makes the world go around, companies all over the world spend millions of dollars and years on advertising, go and ask all them if it worked but hey I'm wrong as always eh, I will happily eat my words when OWL blows up until then stop assuming it will because you WANT it to.

450 seats ain't the issue it's how many viewers we get, if we end up with 450 seats barely getting filled and about 20k viewers for these matches then it ain't looking good is it, those CS events are yearly sure but even the league matches online every week get more viewers and they don't have such ambitious plans like this, makes me wonder what these big guys putting £20m are getting out of the OWL unless something drastic happens in the next 4 years and we get 15k people in attendance and 100k watching at home. Then again there's more chance of world war 3 happening first.

"The difference between you and I is I'm talking about what I think, not about what PEOPLE say, cause that's all you seem to care about. What's it to you if they fucking say Seagull is a god or a garbage can ? Make your own mind and stop reacting, you'll gain more credibility."

So you're saying Seagull IS good enough for OWL because that's what you think, based on what? I already told you I don't rate Seagull regardless of what people say so what you smoking? I have made my mind up and it's been the same for a year so again, what you smoking?

"Scrimming and practicing doesn't mean shit ?! Dude you're heated, ponder before typing. Literally nonsense."

It doesn't mean you're amazing because you've been scrimming, do you not think Renegades and Immortals have been doing all that yet are dog shit, eUnited? you don't base how good someone is because of scrimming you base how good they are in matches that matter, if that's nonsense then whatever.

"And I never said he's ready for OWL, I said he's practicing. Kephrii has played this game professionally for a couple of games in a Liquid try out. So yes, there is a big difference between a guy playing for months and a guy playing for a couple of hours. If that ain't clear to you, I don't know what is."

"Idk how anybody can say Seagull doesn't have the chops for OWL. The guy took a break from professional play but he's still scrimming and practicing.
And I'm gonna join the train, people saying he doesn't have what it takes to be in it (or only at his peak), are obviously biased for a reason or another."

"Don't really enjoy long conversations like these. I guess I like the guy and you don't. Just don't say shit like 'he feels he's too good' cause that's a bunch of garbage. That is all."

Ditto, I like the guy myself just don't rate him as high as everyone seems to think based on his streams and the fact he's scrimming, I can scrim does that make me good? no point talking shit about a guy that has done literally nothing for so long, wait till he turns up in OWL and performs against the best then we can come back and see who was right or wrong until then it's all about opinions, there's no proof that Seagull is or isn't good enough for OWL so don't let your fanboy shit get in the way.

To cut a long story short, I'm hating on people saying Seagull is basically a god based on what he did a year ago or does on stream not hating on the guy personally, that's my opinion if you disagree fair play, as I said before we will see when OWL hits.

I'm not blaming him for being likeable, hell even I like the guy all I'm saying is I don't get why people still rate the guy so high, I may have selective memory but when he was active I still couldn't remember him being THAT good, who honestly cares what he did for this game? we don't judge players success on what they did for the game we judge them on what they did IN the game, if he never wins a tournament in his life will he still be regarded as gods gift to OW just because he makes videos? bullshit.

I'm pretty sure Seagull left because there's not enough big tournaments in OW and he didn't want to practise hard for smaller tournaments? I may be wrong but to me that comes across as someone who is too big for the smaller tournaments.

"Finally, there's no actual pro players' rating. Whatever you're thinking is based off of what random people say on the internet."

So what is yours based on, the fact somehow somewhere all these big pros are saying Seagull is the dogs' bollocks? show me some tweets where big pros are coming out and rating Seagull as highly as the fanboys and I'll rest my case. I still don't rate Seagull regardless of how popular he is and if everyone else does then that's fine, we will see when OWL kicks off just how godly this guy is.

I wouldn't worry about getting downvoted, this forum is incredibly petty for downvoting stuff they don't agree with and upvoting pointless spam or some retarded MEME, if someone made a post saying Seagull was life it would have 8 upvotes so it's pathetic really, either agree with the fanboys or get downvotes eh.

How can people say he DOES have the chops for OWL when he hasn't played competitive OW for so long, you tell me that, scrimming and practising doesn't mean shit mate you trying to tell me Rogue and Renegades/Immortal ain't doing all that yet still look sketchy.

I can easily flip that and say people that say he does have what it takes to be in it are biased for a reason or another, fact is you base him being ready on his streams yet by that logic what's that widowmakers name, Kephri? I've watched him before and he looks great on his stream does that mean he's ready for OWL?

I'm not quite sure how he managed to bring people INTO OW, surely only people that knew OW would watch him? I don't know, I find this is another exaggerated Seagull hype thing that people seem to feel he's single handedly keeping OW alive or some shit, calm the fuck down man he's a good pro who hasn't done anything on the pro scene for a while, there's far better players out there doing it week in week out that nobody mentions? come on.

This guy is so hyped I'm dying to see him in the OWL owning the best teams in the world because hey man he looks shit hot on his streams that can only mean he's the best in the world. I'm almost certain there's some big juicy OW you tubers out there that have as much marketability as Seagull so based on this logic we will see them in the OWL alongside him.

Doesn't that Tyler1 guy have a massive following on Twitch as well? guess he will team up with Seagull.

I think most people just don't buy into the hype, personally from what I saw of him back when he played in NRG he was good indeed but because he was popular people acted like he was gods gift to OW yet it's not like he went ape shit and ripped teams to shreds all the time did he. There's players out there that did more in bigger games more consistently that still don't get rated as high as Seagull for some reason, even after doing fuck all for so long people still act like he's one of the best which blows my mind.

I'll be honest, I don't like the way he just left "pro OW" because he felt he was too good for the smaller tournaments, it was an absolute dick move in my eyes to ditch your team like that to become a streamer, he basically wanted to make money over be successful with his team and for that reason I hope he doesn't get into the OWL.

Fact he's valuable shouldn't matter, should teams go out and bring in some big time you tubers as well because they are even more valuable? I have no idea who the biggest OW you tuber is but throw him on Envyus because he's valuable, nah fuck that.

It's not very often you read about players being so highly rated after doing nothing for over a year or something, but I'm all for being proven wrong so let's see Seagull get into the OWL and show everyone the hype is real and not some fanboy shit.

Not that many options you can use that people can easily associate to London apart from London Calling because of the song or London Lions because of the three lions English national team badge.

Seen a song called London Blues that will let C9 keep the blue from the logo for merchandise and the likes, keep a bit of C9 in there. Wonder if they could try and do something like London Nine to keep some similarity to C9 and for the fact C9 have a big roster.

Can't help but feel Envy will win this 4-0 but with all the maps being really close, is winz playing btw?

Aye I ain't saying the gap is massive but I agree with Fragi being the better tank, other than that I do think Misfits are better everywhere else and while Davin and Linkzr is good I'd much rather have Logix and Tviq any day.

Not after last week no but this Misfits roster is sick and only them playing shit will get them beat because man for man they win hands down.

Probably because teams are having to play 4 maps, if 1 was a draw we'd be having 5 maps which let's be honest is quite a lot, still a bit shit though I don't get why they do this, I like the old fashioned bo3/bo5 yet Blizzard do like to be different eh.

Never been a fan of Sharyk so that would be good, they need a plan b though they could do with a sub or two just to mix things up, Vallu has been shocking in the last 6 maps and it's times like this you could throw Kyb in for him instead but they can't.

Has Vallu played anything other tracer in these 6 maps so far and actually done antyhing worthy?

Funny when you look at the C9 bench and think the likes of Kyb and Fischer along with Zombs would be a huge improvement on how poorly eUnited have been playing recently which shows how strong C9 really are, kinda staggering how the only top EU team not having roster changes are the ones that look so rusty.

Bit of both but I'd edge towards the latter, Vallu has been shit thus far in both games iirc and unfixed has been lacklustre plus Boombox isn't as effective as before since teams focus him down hard, man for man I think C9 are just better period and it's showing.

So who own the players then, Jack or Blizzard since they own the spot and I can't imagine someone would buy out the London spot if the players didn't come with it which is the case in every other sport and considering Blizzard want this to be a sport then yeah. Who also owns the merchandise? I'm sitting here wondering what Jack gets out of buying the spot and players only to be told he can't have C9 in his name or sell C9 merchandise so it's not like he can use this as an opportunity to make C9 a household name because if a noobie comes into OWL and sees the London Ultimates playing how will he ever know they represent C9 unless he Googles them? or will it be a cluster fuck of advertising where each match is announced that the London Ultimates representing Cloud 9 are playing against the Miami Misfits?

Far too much fucking about with this OWL, I like the way e-sports is now and has been for 15-20 years when people host a tournament and teams enter it, go to the LAN and win it with the same team name and players they've had for years without all this bullshit.

Man these casters are terrible, talking about trees and airports wtf? talk about the game, what happened or what you expect to happen yet these guys have nothing to say after 2 rounds.

I am retarded because that question is so brain dead it took me by surprise, are you honest to god asking why you should have to stick to the original topic on a forum, I mean do I have to explain forums to you or something? like seriously..

I can't believe I even have to answer that question.

Are you really retarded?

I said don't let the discussion go the other way in the first place making it easier to stick on topic, what part of that do you not quite understand.

Oh wait now I get it, you asked why should you stay on topic? lmfao that's even more retarded, hey guys why should be stay on topic on a forum? christ mate.

By not letting it go the other way? as I said don't be hypocrites, I got babies crying when I did something less obvious yet those same people crying are doing the exact same thing here.

Topic was about 11k viewers not him asking for advice on how to make more effort.

Do that all you want but at least stick to the topic, the guy made a thread talking about viewership yet all the replies are about his lack of effort, I mean what the fuck? I talked about Liquid selling a spot in a thread about the said league and people cried like babies yet turn into hypocrites here when it suits them?

Saying he's free to post it yet talking shit about him for posting it is absolutely mind blowing.

I'm not the one throwing tantrums mate, I ain't the one crying because a guy made a thread with no effort, try looking back.

To talk about the 11k viewers maybe? I think people forget this is a forum where the point of it is to DISCUSS things both positive and negative so instead of being a bunch of fucking crybabies maybe discuss the 11k viewers and wipe those tears away for christ sake.

"everyone can see it" well mate, everyone can see when a match ends 4-0 yet we still talk about it, everyone can see when a team picks a player up yet we still talk about it, we talk about what we see on forums which is the whole point, not hard to grasp is it?

"We're free to comment on a post he put out on a public forum just as he's free to post it, not sure what your issue on the matter is either.

Yet you act like he shouldn't have made the thread and criticized his lack of effort so how can you then say he's free to post it? hypocritical or what mate.