Thorin tweeted this: “There should be a cross-game cheating policy. If you cheat in official matches in CS:GO why should you get to play pro Overwatch?” https://twitter.com/thooorin/status/919612377796145155
Personally I don’t think this should be a thing, it makes sense to give people a second chance. Once a cheater does not mean always a cheater.
Sideshow [#3]No reason to suspect it's levelled directly at babybay imo, there are quite a few former cheaters in Overwatch from many games. The fact they're now competing at the top level without cheats means we'd be robbed of those talents with this rule. My primary reason I'm against it.
but are any of them in OWL?
Blue [#4]but are any of them in OWL?
Yeah I mean off the top of my head Pine cheated in a pub in TF2 apparently, I think fl0w3r and perhaps janus were involved too? They were like 13 at the time.
Depending on who gets into OWL then could be far more, I'm sure there are quite a few who cheated in their youth and have just never been found out.
Blue [#4]but are any of them in OWL?
I mean, babybay is a former cheater. He was then known as Flex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5Z53q_Se8.
Other known former cheaters are the tork brothers, Pine, Zunba, AZK (although he didn't "cheat" just fixed a match). I'm sure there are more.
Sideshow [#5]Yeah I mean off the top of my head Pine cheated in a pub in TF2 apparently, I think fl0w3r and perhaps janus were involved too? They were like 13 at the time.
Depending on who gets into OWL then could be far more, I'm sure there are quite a few who cheated in their youth and have just never been found out.
There's a difference between cheating in official matches and cheating on pubs though.
Sideshow [#5]Yeah I mean off the top of my head Pine cheated in a pub in TF2 apparently, I think fl0w3r and perhaps janus were involved too? They were like 13 at the time.
Depending on who gets into OWL then could be far more, I'm sure there are quite a few who cheated in their youth and have just never been found out.
fair enough, I'm not familiar with the korean players
Perhaps I'm just old school, but a second chance after cheating is a no go for me. It's a level above anything else you can do in games. Obviously if they did it at a very young age then another shot is probably warranted.
Or at least a long ass suspension from pro gaming to actually set the tone for whoever tries to cheat in the future.
Involv3r [#9]Perhaps I'm just old school, but a second chance after cheating is a no go for me. It's a level above anything else you can do in games. Obviously if they did it at a very young age then another shot is probably warranted.
Or at least a long ass suspension from pro gaming to actually set the tone for whoever tries to cheat in the future.
They're all "at a young age", imo. The vast majority of the players are in their late teens to early 20s, so cheating a couple of years back makes them even younger.
I don't excuse cheating, but it's no surprise young men playing in a competitive setting are more prone to do it. We do need to treat them like adults if the want to be part of the "pro" world, but proper guidance is paramount here, instead of just banning them for past mistakes, again, imo.
I really think it depends on the situation really. In BabyBay's case, the dude is ringing for a friend's team in a real match albeit a very unimportant like tier 3 match and he decides to cheat. If he's willing to cheat under those circumstances, why would he not attempt to cheat when more is on the line? and he is at LEAST 18 but probably older so he was pretty close to being an adult at the time of his incident. If you're cheating at like 16-17 or older, you're too old for that.
Now if you're 13 and you learn that you can download an aimbot to make you win everything and so you hop in a couple random valve servers, then whatever we've all done something like it but you're not fucking with competitive integrity.
You hurt a lot of people when you cheat in real events. You're not just hurting yourself and your team and the other team, you're hurting the people who are watching and might want to pick you up, you're hurting the sponsors of the event and the orgs, you're hurting the game itself and the game studio, publisher and its devs... It's just really rude. All these people worked really hard and you're just gonna say "fuck you" to all of them. Pretty fucking scummy. There is not a lot you could do to show redemption for that. That's literally in Overwatch's case THOUSANDS of people.
Think about what a bad light it painted on Competitive Cycling when Lance Armstrong got caught doping. Basically none of the events for like 20 years even mattered. All of them are essentially irrelevant. In some cases, the top 10 were completely stripped of their positions. Think about all the people that are hurt because of Lance Armstrong? All those people he inspired got duped. Sad part with him is he didn't even need to do it, his story was good enough whether he won or not. Scummy. Cheating is very hard to forgive.
KuroiRyuu9625 [#10]They're all "at a young age", imo. The vast majority of the players are in their late teens to early 20s, so cheating a couple of years back makes them even younger.
I don't excuse cheating, but it's no surprise young men playing in a competitive setting are more prone to do it. We do need to treat them like adults if the want to be part of the "pro" world, but proper guidance is paramount here, instead of just banning them for past mistakes, again, imo.
I did say at a very young age, I meant at 13 -14, kids can still do stupid things, I don't think it'd be fair to completely shut them down, still is a mistake at that age. Past that should be a different story imo.
But then again some people will take it as 'it's ok to cheat before x age', which is fucked up too.
So I don't know, it's tough to put a cheating restriction in a box. Maybe it should be a black and white thing, just advertise not cheating in a smart way or something, and dish out the one strike bans. Delicate subject.
I don't have any examples in my mind. But if someone recently cheated in another game, their punishment should be carried over to whichever game they move on to. That can only be enforced by tournament organizers or Blizzard though, and is still ultimately their decision whether to uphold their preexisting punishment in OW.
If their old punishment already expired and they wish to move on to OW, I think that's fine because they have already served their due punishment. If players got perma'd in another game, it's still the discretion of OW on whether to allow them on a case by case basis.
HipiMan444 [#11]People deserve a second chance imo.
he had a second chance already :)
got cevo,esea banned and after that kept cheating ...
Does Thoorin do anything in eSports besides stir the pot, shit post, and cause toxicity?
I mean I understand he bring valid points up, but someone in his position with his knowledge just using his platform to promote negativity in the sport is disappointing. I wish he would put his talents to better use and make eSports better instead of constantly tearing it down.
darkcvc [#18]Does Thoorin do anything in eSports besides stir the pot, shit post, and cause toxicity?
I mean I understand he bring valid points up, but someone in his position with his knowledge just using his platform to promote negativity in the sport is disappointing. I wish he would put his talents to better use and make eSports better instead of constantly tearing it down.
Thorin knows his stuff, there's no denying that. Great knowledge of esports, well spoken and whatnot. But sometimes he just tries too hard to be that guy that doesn't give a fuck. He comes off as having a superiority complex, thinks he's always right, bashes anybody who disagrees, and mocks a lot.
As you said, he brings up valid points and has a lot to say about esports, his delivery is just getting old.
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