]Godhand_, there is a reason OWL is launching at Q3 not right after game realise. And the reason is to get everything ready for that. In-game features like replays, spactator etc. included. No worries, they stated more than once that they are working on it.

You have no guarantee that those features make it into launch before the OWL. In fact if they still aiming for september or whatever more than likely you won't see replays until late 2017 because they're so focused on handling logistics and production etc for the league. Late 2017 for replays is honestly a very generous estimate given blizzard's track record. We might never see replays to be honest. Look at how many basic features Hearthstone still lacks and that game has been out for years.

Your problem is that you think that mechanical skills is everything worth watching. OW is not another Quake. It is mid way between Q3A and League of Legends. Stop looking at this game as it was just FPS. There are mechanical requiring heroes, like Tracer, Genji, Widow... where you can go as mechanicaly crazy as you only want. There is no limit.

Those heroes have movement abilities where the interaction is you pressing the button and the game expressing the button in binary ways. There is nothing creative about genji dashing because each dash has a fixed amount of distance and linear travel. Contrast that to circlejumping/rocketjumping/airstrafing/bunnyhopping etc in other games, it doesn't even compare...

There is beauty in these mechanics akin to diving/ballet/surfboarding/dancing, there is no beauty in a genji pressing his deflect button for invuln and then dashing through you for a kill and you cannot do anything about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUCtMIjL-Z4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq2Glc7hudY

The fact that there is no movement acceleration and you can't strafe jump (which is not even hard) doen't make the game easier.

Yes it does, but it doesn't "matter if the game is easier because mechanical skill isn't all overwatch is about" which is your argument. You cannot now...say that Overwatch is as hard as the other game when you are arguing that it isnt and that its not a fps and that Overwatch being easier than said fpses doesn't matter.

There are also less mechanicly requiring heroes that however require other skills to have like extreme game sense, shoutcalling, strategic and leading skills.

This is a moot point because there was just as much strategy in older team based FPS games and even duel in Quake was more about tactical thinking than pure aim.

And I find it as really good because the game is a place for people with different skill sets. If you limit it only to people with extremly good mechanical skills game will lack in other fields. Now we can have someone who is still very good mechanicaly but extraoridiary in eg. macro game. Someone who can bring it to another level that no one mechanicaly gifted could ever do.

Imagine the NBA making basketball easier for handicapped and fat people.

And if you simply don't like it? Why bothering with it? Move along, find the game you like.

You're not reading, no where in my posts did I ever say I disliked Overwatch.

If you don't like the fact there is so much money being put into OW's esport, remember those are not your money. It's Blizzard and people/companies that decided to invest into it who took the risk.

It's not Richard Lewis' money either but he can put out criticism of the valuations? We live in an era where putting money into esports for marketing is more lucrative than actually putting out a good competitive product for the consumer. Do you not see the issue in this? Blizzard is trying to make millions while the people actually playing the game, not the pro players, not the casters, not the tournament organizers. But the guy who is the one supposedly going to be watching the tournament, the guy that gets home from his job every day and sits down to play Overwatch. The in-game experience for them is STILL NOT all that it could be and this should be addressed before we talk about professional leagues. Who cares about people playing for millions of dollars in prizes if I still can't pick what maps I queue into for Casual or Ranked? Why would the Overwatch combine even be legitimate with the way Ranked works with win/loss streak bonuses? Have you seen the default HUD for overwatch?

While I agree with you on some points GodHand_, like Roadhog's hook being retarded, 4t / 3t+sold meta being the most boring ever, bastion being op etc., your mistake is to take Overwatch as just a fps game and comparing it to oldschool shooters.
Overwatch is not just a fps. It's a mix of both fps and moba. Your disregard to moba games from your previous post is enough to realize that Overwatch is not really a game for you, to go full-time/pro or whatever. I was fan of competitive Quake myself back then and I agree it was an awesome esport but again it was a solo game. There was nothing apart from individual mechanics and map skills to decide who's better. While Overwatch is not even close to be as challenging mechanicly, its depth, just like in mobas, is in teamwork and strategy. Something that, taking your all examples, is not what you value much. You obviously are into superstar players who do incredible things on their own but you can't see what other people see in teamplay. It may be as simple as team based games are not for you and you should stick with duel based ones.

I think creating a false dichotomy between 1v1 games and team games is pretty stupid. It's not that team games HAVE to be easier than 1v1 games. It's just that due to the design of most team games they end up dumbing down the individual aspect of the game for no apparent reason. One could never contend that the individual in something like basketball has little impact on the outcome of the game because basketball despite being a team game...is a game about superstars lol. Basketball is not harder or easier than tennis, why isn't this the case in videogames? Because sports have the physical aspect where both basketball and tennis take physical exertion, videogames on the other hand have sought to destroy all semblance of the physical aspect meaning the mechanical skill in playing games for "accessibility". The paradox is that we live in an age where competitive videogames have reached insane levels of relevancy in the mainstream and warrant million dollar prizes yet we play the easiest games that have ever been made. Of course hardliner purists like me are not the norm, most people don't care about how hard a game is or competitive integrity. Nothing wrong with that at all

We can look for examples in gaming where team game modes don't lessen the impact of a single entity like TDM in Quake. In warcraft 3 team game modes were actually really popular and honestly you could carry the fuck out of people this game also had true solo queue lol. This dichotomy only exists because people have accepted the carebear nature of team based games not that this is the way things have to be. Well one could make the argument that the "three legged race" design began with the popularization of dota and LoL. If we go back in time even class based FPS games like Enemy Territory had the same fragging abilities for every class meaning the "support" classes were able to carry.

We can't help you if you don't like the game. It was never meant to be another Quake. However, while there are tons of things still to improve in Overwatch, there are people - like me - who enjoy esport at Overwatch. But I was fan not only of duel games like Q3, but also of many team based games - mobas included (League of Legends).
Esport in LoL has fanbase many times larger than Quake ever had. I know it's not the same time, but my point is that there is a lot of people who enjoy such type of games and will watch it.
Blizzard knows the issues with spectator mode and they are working on it to be ready for their OWL. They will promote this and I'm sure it will have huge viewership. I will be watching it (unless it's tanks/soldier boring shit again - then i'll pass). For you... I suggest you to wait for Quake Champions with hope they will not fk it up and we'll get a fast, mechanicaly challenging, duel based game after all that time again. I they make it right I will watch it too.

Me not liking the game wasn't even the point of my initial post. I never even indicated whether or not I disliked it, in fact I think as a casual game its ok.

The point I was trying to make it is we have a reality where blizzard is going to be selling league slots for millions of dollars, while the competitive scene doesn't even have basic features like replays and ranked mode is an abysmal experience for everyone trying to play competitively in the first place. Even the casual experience is cringeworthy...you cant even select what maps to queue for in casual...why cant you? Granted Overwatch is a very young game but knowing this can you really say that it's ready to be showcased to people? Imagine if the meta disasters like beyblade and tank stacking happened and people ridiculed the fuck out of this game. It's going to be some time before Blizzard figures shit out and creates a meta that doesn't get boring and infuriating to play after 1 season...if such a meta even exists.

How does this align with their intentions on creating a long term competitive game? (Well they never had that intention) They don't really care about competitive gaming it's just seeing esports as a vehicle for marketing, and honestly that is the case for most developers. Not that it is a BAD thing to see it that way, but players need to wake up and realize this, stop defending Blizzard's bottomline. Especially players who's livelihood depends on blizzard's competency you really need to be a pessimist when dealing with them lest you end up like the Hearthstone and HOTS communities.

damn this news post really exposed a lot of deep-seated angst

People criticizing blizzard business decisions and things I like = angst? I guess Richard Lewis is also an angsty individual then. I am sorry that the world doesn't exist in a perpetual safe space vacuum where opinions that you don't ageee with simply don't exist. I am sure if you hit the downfrags hard enough my posts will disappear though.

As a long time FPS player i actually find the lack of movement accel in Overwatch to be a really good change for FPS games. You can argue that accel/air strafing adds another dimension of skill to the genre but the mechanics are so subtle most players let alone eSports spectators will never ever notice how important it is. It's fucking retarded to lose duels in an FPS if you have equal or better aim and gamesense simply because your opponent can stafe jump to the pickups better in Quake or reset their recoil/movement spread faster in CS:GO.

There are a lot of subtleties and nuances in every field that the layman would never appreciate. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't exist.

Do you think the average sports fan knows everything about the form that goes into shooting a perfect 3 pointer?

Or any sports fundamentals?

Do you think that in tf2...every scout should have equal movement? If the answer is yes then we just think about games differently.

That is a disadvantage you cannot willfully overcome without putting more time in the game; there is no other alternative. It wouldn't be an issue if most popular FPS games in the genre didn't have incredibly specific movement mechanics that barely transfer well between each other adding artificial difficulty to each separate title.

I'm not quite following why having mechanics that scale infinitely with time practiced is bad in a game where you're going to have players at the top end spending 8 hours or more a day trying to perfect said skills? If I'm watching a game I want to see extraordinary things happen because that shit is hype. It's pretty much this line of thinking that created the abomination that is Street Fighter V. When you give extraordinary people the ability to perfect things to an unthinkable level the amount of hype generated is going to be unreal.

Unless the argument is the game would be too inaccessible for the bottom end. Which is fine

transfer well between each other adding artificial difficulty to each separate title

Skills not transferring well between eachother isn't really an issue. I'm also not sure artificial difficulty is the word you want to use here either. Is trying to perfect a serve in tennis artificial difficulty? I used to have to spend hours in an empty court hitting hundreds of balls in order to get a good serve. Hell in order to even return a ball in tennis you need to learn banal things like grips and form. Obviously none of this shit is fun and you'd rather be on the court hitting 100mph serves like the best of them but it doesn't work like that. Even in non competitive fields like music, learning how to hold an instrument, or proper embouchure for wind instruments is all shit people who JUST listen to music will never appreciate. Why should "esports" be any different in their approach to skills?

#4 obviously if you don't enjoy the game then you won't want to put up with it but some people genuinely enjoy playing the game and enjoy the competition.

I never said that it was impossible to enjoy Overwatch. That is your lack of comprehension speaking not anything I said.

In counter strike there's endless rng, one tap pistols and bugs but that doesn't stop it from being one of the best if not the best esport. League of legends comes down to the exact same shit "q presses and hooks". Obviously it's not perfect but it's something.

You're putting words into my mouth? Where did I say CSGO was the pinnacle of competitive gaming? I'm a quake player and fan so of course I wouldn't think that. But then again I never mentioned that so how would you know my exact feelings about fps games anyway? And yes there are bullshit mechanics in CSGO but objectively the skill ceiling for an individual is sky high compared to OW. Where some shotguns have spreads the size of your fucking screen and there are heroes which you don't have to aim with. If we are comparing the merits of an fps game to another.

Even movement is gutted in comparison to quake or tf2, airstrafing is a joke/non existant in OW because you lose momentum on directional changes. Crouch spamming was in the game months after release before being fixed and strafe spamming is mindless because of the lack of movement accel. Is this the standard you want Overwatch to be at? Handled by developers who didn't realize after 8 months of beta that crouchspamming should probably be fixed? Pros didn't care about it then because they were using it to gain months of experience over others in an attempt to capitalize in on an "esports goldrush"

It's sort of funny the same people that will rail me for bringing up how retarded Roadhog hooks are were probably the same people complaining and moaning about it weeks ago. "HOW COULD BLIZZARD LET THIS STUFF EXIST IN AN ESPORT?!!"

Where was the "TOP KEKED LEAGUE HAS THE SAME MECHANICS!! RNG SPREAD IN CSGO!!!" strawman arguments then?

Any further posts saying that I'm ONLY holding this standard to Overwatch and not games like league or dota let me end that here.

League and dota are hasbro toy tier compared to RTS games.

And this is coming from an ex warcraft 3 pro

It's this sort of defensiveness when you criticize a game's competitive merits from fans that is straight up obnoxious.

There's a reason why you're an unknown low tier NA player, if you don't enjoy the game and don't want to commit the time to playing then you shouldn't be a pro.

Why insult me? What you're saying is correct though. Why play professionally if I dislike the game? Which is my point...if people don't enjoy the game or have a passion for it then they simply shouldn't play. If there isn't interest in watching competitive overwatch (BEFORE THE LEAGUE) then there simply is no reason for slots to be sold at the valuation of millions of dollars.

If there isn't a solid competitive game at the core then why have such an inflated esports scene around it? Because you wan't validation?

Cart before the horse...

Developers are so keen on the idea of esports as a marketing tool and magic money making machine rather than competitive games being about organic passion and growth leading to the eventual big leagues due to the competitive scene's sheer popularity.

It's all about NOW NOW NOW.

What is the cost of a replay system? Or scoreboard? Or the ability to choose what maps you queue into when you press ranked? How much money would you have to pay the OW map designers to either FIX 2cp or make promises not to develop more fundamentally broken and extremely linear maps? Is it 10 million? What about handling balance? How much is that worth. Fast forward..we're now 10 weeks into the OW League and blizzard buffs another hero in FOTM status leading to another cancerous meta. Has anyone stepped back and thought about if there will ever be an enjoyable meta in OW? And if the answer is no...then the follow up question is...IS Overwatch a FUN game to play? Fun enough to devote 5-10 years of your life and for young people this is effectively throwing out good portions of your prime years. Are you willing as a PROFESSIONAL to play overwatch 5-10 more years? What about lucio/mercy for 4 years staring at the backs of people who are actually engaging their synapses? Are you willing to be discorded for 3 years? Are you willing to play vs bastion/symm/torb/roadhog/rein for 6? Given Blizzard's track record with "esports" do you really want to be like the Hearthstone pros that are filled with regret and woe the perpetual shittiness of their game? Or what about the HOTS pros that literally no one gives a shit about? When I was sponsored and on Denials Overwatch team this is what I thought about and the answer for me is NO.

5 million dollar tournaments that come down to Q presses and roadhog hooks.

Esports continues it's march to obtain legitimacy in the eyes of the mainstream without really critically analyzing the kinds of games we play and WHY we play them.

That's funny you say that when the superior DM teams get out DMed by the "strategically inclined only koreans" You saw poorly coordinated korean teams win vs poorly coordinated western teams. Cloud9 vs AFB for example

The difference is that koreans don't play this game of blame deflection where they blame their losses on scapegoats, and don't constantly circlejerk about a skill that should be a given in the highest level of competition. I believe that's something called professionalism. CJing about a tracer killing a zen in one clip is like cumming in your pants when pete sampras hits a serve.

PROS SHOULD have good aim if you don't have GOOD AIM what are you doing at APEX? (playing the dps role)

The problems with the western scene go deeper than "we can't think strategically"

With the exception of SC:BW and maybe wc3 in its prime , koreans always become the best in the lower skill demanding games.

wc3 wasn't big in korea. The "Koreans" of wc3 was China and with a few notable koreans at the top. Which is scary given how little they liked wc3.

Here's another point though....stop circlejerking about being good at past games. It literally doesn't really matter.

Talented gamers are going to learn a game very quickly and get to the top. Grimreality is the best mcree in NA and didn't even fucking play a fps game before. He played league of legends.

OW is top heavy now.

If you cut or die as a top 15 team there is no one right now that can fill your shoes.

For the most part nobody is willing to take a chance on unknown talent. And the teams that are currently floating around top 20 have a hard time getting (good) scrims so talent is going to take longer to develop.

Splyce poaching Shrugger outright killed Street Hoops.

Bird's new team literally can't find a solid 6th

Mendo is likely having the same issues since his goals are to be a top 10 team obviously. There aren't any pickups that will guarantee that in a speedy manner. I honestly don't think he's willing to invest 1-2 months of scrim time just to compete(but not beat) with teams like 1SHOT, who coincidentally are having roster issues of their own.

This is just one of the unfortunate consequences of letting people scrim during closed beta.

Wonderfuls and CLAMP are really questionable sometimes

Overwatch, pump the brakes a LIL

Mercy isn't good anymore

Wow great read!

Not all of them

Faze is no longer an invite level team

Fully expect Street Hoops to be winning that series.

Hey pick this guy up

Mercy is a role that scales with the skill level of your opponents,

It goes from mind numbingly easy to increasingly hard when the teams you're facing actively pressure you and don't miss their shots.

Short of poaching a mercy from a tier 2 team or getting an experienced TF2 medic(the playstyles are different anyway) it's going to be hard to find someone to fill the role. The game isn't established and there's not going to be many players that have had the experience Esper does.

i only play mercy

i hold down m1 and occasionally m2

i try really hard to overcome OW's retarded movement limits and to not die.

past fps experience: a lot of games including enemy territory but none of this matters, was literally a semi pro in 1v1 warcraft 3 and on the top ranked 3v3/4v4 AT ladder teams.

The World Class Endorsement: http://i.imgur.com/GYDY4vC.jpg

GodHand#11690