Done by the Trump administration.

Amazing ggs. KR Overwatch. Insane.

LUNATIC FUCKING HAI FIGHTING!!!!!!!

OH MY FUCKING GOD. THE ULTIMATE C9 MOMENT!!!

Forsaken and Sharyk, I CALL FOUL PLAY.

This is the APEX Finals we've needed all along.

My heart can't take this...

LH kinda screwed themselves over on KDP's 2nd point take lol, not sure what they were all doing in that room off the point but instant disadvantage. I think they may have been able to hold if not for all the deaths in there.

One can be burnt out and still have the desire to win though. I guess it depends on the person and their level of fatigue tolerance. It's too bad foreign teams couldn't have better accommodations, like a team house or such. Costly, but probably much much better than being stuck in a hotel for months on end.

At least they'll always have the bragging rights of winning the first one.

Solid win by ViCi, clearly the better team in this particular match. They really found themselves after Lijang, building momentum after that (epic LUL) Lunar Colony win.

I remember his tweets, but I associated them with him feeling the burn out more than him not caring about winning. They bounced back against X6 and the first two maps against KDP were close. The last two maps not su much so at that point I would believe it if you told me they had somewhat given up.

I know that he mentioned not having wanted to go back to Korea at all for Season 3 but agreeing to go for the rest of the team. though situation to be in for sure.

Pretty sure nV cared about winning up until they lost to KDP in the Semis, I can believe that they didn't afterwards though.

And yeah, Rogue did get surprised, LH and KDP pretty much just prepared for them and delt with them pretty effectively. I think they might have been able to get passed KDP if they have played them first.

On another note, OGN production is God Like. LET THE BLOOD BATH BEGIN!

LUNATIC HAI FIGHTING!! KONGDOO PANTHERA FIGHTING!!

Team Celestial may have just had the most C9 moment I've ever seen in my life. ViCi had just 30 sec to capture the 2nd point and...no one contested them! Even the casters were hella confused.

Just Overwatch things.

Nice team name, but would have given more points for GrumpyCat.

Usually about 15min after the hour so you should be relatively safe tuning in at 5:15 am EDT, but do you really want to miss the pre-game bants tho?

Gonna have to point out that the "health care" thing aint an NA thing, Canada has free health care. Just sayin'...SIDESHOW. <3

YYEESSS!!! Finally my sub to this YouTube channel is put to use!

Yes he's young, and I do hope he learns and matures from this and I also fully understand how difficult it can be to reach out when you think you're in too deep.

That being said, I don't think it's enough to give him a pass. While he gave a better explanation for his actions I personally didn't feel like he expressed any remorse for them. Many an other in similar or worst situations were able to man up, and admit that they needed out and tap into the resources available to them.

Best of luck to him in the future.

From his tweets it sounds like scrimming and being a Pro in general was hell for him. Not sure I see him coming back. I mean, he trolled, threw games, asked others to throw and did it all in a public setting for a while to get out.

I don't know if anything was going on with Selfless but they seemed like a cool org, so I'm really puzzled that this was the solution he came up with to get himself out of that situation.

I think it's better for both him and the game if he stays away from that environment.

I don't think this actually makes them weaker as individuals but I'll be interested in seeing if it disrupts team chemistry. I mean, I'm rooting for team Canada so anything that helps us avoid finishing 2nd or lower in the group...

Looks like they had to do some last minute swaps. Here the Reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6q4dtb/team_russia_roster_changes/

Copy Pasta from the post itself:
Due to visa problems Norgac and Unfixed(eUnited) are substituted by Sharyk(eUnited) and Mistakes(123) for the upcoming World Cup qualifier. Confirmed by committee member Anak.

The roster is:

Sharyk(eUnited)
Txao
Mistakes(123)
Shadowburn(Faze)
Forsak3n(Faze)
Rubikon(Bazooka Puppiez)

Spawn camping and talking shit? Par for the course imo. As long as he's not trolling and throwing games he can do w/e the f he wants.

I will say though, Selfless sounded like an amazing org so I can only hope they would have released him had he ever asked. I don't know if he did or not, but trolling and throwing just to get banned is a stupid way to try and get out of Pro Overwatch.

I don't think the point of a discussion is to be won. It's the exchange of opinions and ideas, as long as you don't dismiss one side it keeps being a discussion otherwise yes, it devolves into an argument.

I think you misunderstand something, which is why I said you don't comprehend the message i'm trying to convey. I'm not Pro or Anti Overwatch league, I've said it many times so that relatively proves my point.

You pointed out an issue with the current state of affairs that the league wold fail to fix and thus fail itself. I elaborated on a way in which I thought it could work in regards to that issue but also clearly stated that it was pure speculation in this debate.

I'm still not convinced you understood what I meant to say, or maybe you just din't care to, but all I've said have been opinions and speculation and i'm pretty clear on that. Unlike what you seem to think I can be convinced when
an appropriate amount of verifiable information is brought forth. Right now we don't have much to go on so you're right that no one can truly be convinced. I'm not leaning towards either way but with the general anti OWL rhetoric going around I find it more challenging to think of way it could work, not necessarily that it will.

Intent is a difficult thing to convey when written, so I read all comments very carefully to make sure I've understood them and I might be wrong but it din't feel like I was given the same courtesy back in this case.

Our favorite Reddit god TISrobin311 translated a few words fro MVP Infinity's coach.

Here's the post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6pwps0/mvp_coach_talks_about_his_teams_journey_and_the/

His Translation:
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=4538&my=chu&l=2839419
A message from the Coach of MVP was posted on Inven regarding the team's decision to drop Infinity. It immediately gained attention and a lot of sympathy among KR fans.

. . .

"Hello, this is nuGet, the coach of MVP. Due to a lot of events happening around us we didn't have a chance to officially announce the disbanding of Infinity, and we're very sorry about that.

Infinity was created as a sister team to Space, when I was appointed as coach last September. At the time the team consisted of various players including Discharge from Oppa Danawa, and other players chosen through closed tryouts.

On the APEX Season 1 qualifiers, we tried to make it to the main tourney, but failed on the last step. After that, we slowly went through the hellish Season 1 Challengers schedule (22 rounds in total) and finally made it through the relegations. We were finally able to show ourselves on the main stage of APEX Season 2.

There was a rebuilding period for some players, and we tried our best against BK Stars, Envyus, and Meta Athena, but in the end we had to go back to the Challengers league after losing 3:0.

The continuation of player roster changes and the inability to adjust to the Challengers schedule led to our poor performance even in the Season 3 challengers.

Now, I'm here to talk about Infinity's last moments.

I think the time when we were the most famous team was when we displayed a surprising performance against Envyus and Meta Athena, when we kept on being stubborn against the opponent which dragged the series 2:3. People called that the "Mud Meta" because of how we dragged the series into the 5th map.

The Mud Meta implied that we stilled lacked coordination and skill compared to tier teams, but also our willingness to try our best. From the beginning till the end we never gave up on every single fight, and that created the famous scene on route 66 where all 6 of us were caught hiding in the container due to the "Hanzo Sonic Arrow" ;)

Because of this a lot of people sent us their support, and we are very thankful for that. More than the things we were unable to show on LAN, we treasure those moments where we received love much more.

We are very sorry once again for our bad performance on the Season 3 Challengers. The teamwork was really bad to the point that people were wondering if we had given up on Infinity. Of course we were trying our best but sometimes things just never go the way we want. It is very sad to say this from my own mouth.

We thank you for all the support from other players and fans. A lot of things happen when players live in the same gaming house - from personal fights that arise from food to twitch stream mistakes that get posted on Inven! During these moments we still remember the difficult times and how we tried to overcome them with passion. The players will be moving on to other teams, and some will be pursuing their own careers separate from Overwatch. We sincerely hope the best for their future.

Currently a lot of Overwatch teams are undergoing difficult times, in Korea as well as the rest of the world.

While the biggest reason is of course financial matters, the factors also include worries of the Overwatch League and LAN results.

We hope that fans will always cheer for the Coaches and staff that try their hardest despite the difficult environment! The MVP Space team will promise to try its best this APEX Season.

Thank you.

. . .

MVP Infinity consisted of:

Break

WhyNot

Fywyn

OneFact

Larus

ARA

Undine

Easybro

Climax

Sylph

Bianca

Fuze

Insanity

players who have been on MVP Infinity from APEX Season 1 to the end of APEX Season 3.

I'll re-add it here as well.

Already mentioned it here:
https://www.over.gg/4897/mvp-squads-undergo-major-shuffle

I approve of this scientific conclusion.

I'm going to bed early Friday, I've got 3 alarms set for Saturday morning. This is happening.

Possibly, if they lose the finals, and even then, the OWC is a chance to have fun and compete for your country. I'm not convinced that losing at APEX would carry over to the extent that the level of their play is severely lowered.

Obviously we'll get to see how they do next week, but I wouldn't count on them giving anything less than 100%, I'm sure 2Easy and the rest of those champs are also expects the same thing from them.

Our favorite Reddit god TISrobin311 translated a few words fro MVP Infinity's coach.

Here's the post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6pwps0/mvp_coach_talks_about_his_teams_journey_and_the/

His Translation:
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=4538&my=chu&l=2839419
A message from the Coach of MVP was posted on Inven regarding the team's decision to drop Infinity. It immediately gained attention and a lot of sympathy among KR fans.

. . .

"Hello, this is nuGet, the coach of MVP. Due to a lot of events happening around us we didn't have a chance to officially announce the disbanding of Infinity, and we're very sorry about that.

Infinity was created as a sister team to Space, when I was appointed as coach last September. At the time the team consisted of various players including Discharge from Oppa Danawa, and other players chosen through closed tryouts.

On the APEX Season 1 qualifiers, we tried to make it to the main tourney, but failed on the last step. After that, we slowly went through the hellish Season 1 Challengers schedule (22 rounds in total) and finally made it through the relegations. We were finally able to show ourselves on the main stage of APEX Season 2.

There was a rebuilding period for some players, and we tried our best against BK Stars, Envyus, and Meta Athena, but in the end we had to go back to the Challengers league after losing 3:0.

The continuation of player roster changes and the inability to adjust to the Challengers schedule led to our poor performance even in the Season 3 challengers.

Now, I'm here to talk about Infinity's last moments.

I think the time when we were the most famous team was when we displayed a surprising performance against Envyus and Meta Athena, when we kept on being stubborn against the opponent which dragged the series 2:3. People called that the "Mud Meta" because of how we dragged the series into the 5th map.

The Mud Meta implied that we stilled lacked coordination and skill compared to tier teams, but also our willingness to try our best. From the beginning till the end we never gave up on every single fight, and that created the famous scene on route 66 where all 6 of us were caught hiding in the container due to the "Hanzo Sonic Arrow" ;)

Because of this a lot of people sent us their support, and we are very thankful for that. More than the things we were unable to show on LAN, we treasure those moments where we received love much more.

We are very sorry once again for our bad performance on the Season 3 Challengers. The teamwork was really bad to the point that people were wondering if we had given up on Infinity. Of course we were trying our best but sometimes things just never go the way we want. It is very sad to say this from my own mouth.

We thank you for all the support from other players and fans. A lot of things happen when players live in the same gaming house - from personal fights that arise from food to twitch stream mistakes that get posted on Inven! During these moments we still remember the difficult times and how we tried to overcome them with passion. The players will be moving on to other teams, and some will be pursuing their own careers separate from Overwatch. We sincerely hope the best for their future.

Currently a lot of Overwatch teams are undergoing difficult times, in Korea as well as the rest of the world.

While the biggest reason is of course financial matters, the factors also include worries of the Overwatch League and LAN results.

We hope that fans will always cheer for the Coaches and staff that try their hardest despite the difficult environment! The MVP Space team will promise to try its best this APEX Season.

Thank you.

. . .

MVP Infinity consisted of:

Break

WhyNot

Fywyn

OneFact

Larus

ARA

Undine

Easybro

Climax

Sylph

Bianca

Fuze

Insanity

players who have been on MVP Infinity from APEX Season 1 to the end of APEX Season 3.

This is what I mean, I listed a hypothetical situation where a solution to the main problem you listed could be found. Nothing to do with them amazing or amusing us all as you put it.

I do however agree with you that they're trying to re-invent the wheel and as a result they have a lot to prove to a lot of people. eSport have been around for a while but they've always been niche so I'm assuming this is their attempt to make it more mainstream so they can cash in.

I just don't believe it's impossible, improbable maybe, but still in the realm of possibility.

p.s. "I (don't) think", those words are pretty important in these types of debate. Without them your opinions turn into statements, and to make statements you need hard proof and/or comprehensive information, which we don't have right now. That's mainly why it was difficult for me to decipher your overall message.

Bold statement opinion, but as empty as any other pro/anti OWL argument unless you know more than the rest or you somehow have line of sight into what's going on behind the scenes.

Not sure what your argument is anymore, are you saying they shouldn't try and grow the viewership because it could potentially turn off current players?

That could prossibly stagnate growth and more than likely kill the scene. I'm going off the assumption that you want Overwatch to be a successful game and eSport so I may have misunderstood the intent of that last comment.

The example I gave is one where they would try and grow viewership of the game by attracting non Overwatch fans, through growing the local fan base. More teams/regions need to be added but the goal would be to increase general interest in the game and through that get more overall viewers.

Whether that's their actual approach or whether it works or not is something I don't know. But it's the sense I got from reading the available information as well as listening Overwatch news content creators.

I understand that, I'm just not sure why you're not able to comprehend what I'm saying and how it could be possible. I think I've repeated myself enough about also believe the opposite is very possible but you don't seem to know how to debate other than only stating that your yourself are correct.

If I misunderstood your comment I apologize, but I don't feel that I can converse with someone who fails to see both sides of a coin.

You do understand the concept I'm trying to explain right? It feels like you're just looking to answer back without acknowledging the other side.

Either that or they'll be hungry for a win. I think you may be underestimating the mental fortitude that LH has. The Netherlands just has to give it their best and go from there.

It's been in for a while, more dmg earlier, but same time to full kill.

Guess we got our answer on who to blame next: anyone left standing right?

Everyone looks like shit when the team is poorly built, hopefully they get it right at some point and are able to find true synergy.

IIIIIIT'S FISTING TIME!!! giggity

The way I can see it happening is that "The League" is based on trying to attract both current and non overwatch fans through the use of localization.

People might be more inclined to care about this group of youngsters if they represent the area they live in. The age brackets is probably going to be from the teens to the mid/late 20s with older folks that already know about eSports making up the other generations.

I think the point is to hype this up to generate interest and build the local fan base with events and what not. "Come see your local Overwatch team play", and those that can't would follow from their computers instead. That way you'd have the current viewer base of Overwatch fans, local or otherwise, along with new local fans or people that just follow the team wherever they are from. People tend to care a bit more when there's more at stake or that they feel a connection to that thing.

Now, that's how I think it could work, or more precisely how I think Blizzard could be aiming to make it work, so take it with a large pinch of salt, probably large enough to cause kidney failure since I'm just speculating with no basis for any of this. But that's how I imagine they could want to grow their viewer base from what it currently is. I feel like I have to iterate this a lot, but I'm not saying it will succeed, I'm saying I can envision a case where it could, just like I can easily see this failing horribly and killing the scene where it stands. Something some people seem to be unable to do for some reason.

I'll say it again but what I'm concerned with is the ecosystem outside of the league, contenders and the open division. Because I doubt we want Blizz to run literally everything Overwatch in the west. But that's just my unlicensed opinion.

Winning once is too shallow a metric to guarantee a repeat, imo. Though from the matches I saw, Invictus looked more consistent than Star Horn Royal Club so I wouldn't be surprise to see them take it as you say.

You might be right, I'm just questioning where you get the certainty to ascertain what you do. As I mentioned, yes, the league could fail, but seeing as the scene is so young we're low on empirical data and the league itself does not yet exist.

My point is that current viewership numbers may not be enough to determine the success or failure of what they're trying to accomplish. They very well could, there's no shame in admitting that the whole ecosystem could be collapsing, but given the amount of money going into it I can only assume that this void of information is hiding possibilities we can't come up with.

Basically I'm perplexed at how inflexible some parties on either side of the argument can be, when in essence they know nothing, or at the very least they may know much less than they seem to think they do.

The OWL aims to make money via a combination of viewership, which as you said is currently lower than desired, ticket sales, merchandise like the ones announced by Blizz, player streams, local team run tournaments etc... I'm not saying it's guaranteed to be a smash hit but it's very doable.

Now, APEX is a poor example since it's at general bad times for the west. The Grand Finals is at 5:00 am EDT Saturday morning and I'm getting up for that, but most people won't. The OWC qualifiers have been getting a decent amount of views for less than optimal time slots as well. I think Blizzcon viewership would be a better measuring stick to see how the scene is doing at full hype. If it's anything like last year we could see 100k+ numbers with Asian numbers hitting several hundred thousands, possibly even over a million.

Comparison to Rocket League is an odd one since the game is extremely different from Overwatch. FPS games will always be more niche than ones like RL, that may be why Blizz is working so hard to make this game appeal to casuals while also trying to get the eSports fanatics like us.

Should be an interesting 2nd half of the year either way, good or bad.

Rematch time! The Netherlands team looks like they've been able to warm up a bit so let's see if they can keep the momentum going or if Vivi's team play is once again going to be too much to handle for the Dutchmen.

Guess the feds finally caught up to them because they didn't know who they were...

Solid performance by both teams. The Netherlands squad did start to bring it back but Henzu decided to out his carry pants on in the end to bring it home.

Both of these teams failed to qualify for the Nexus Cup, finishing with a 1-1 record each. Invictus is the more popular squad so from that scientific fact they should win the game.

Vivi's looking more coordinated in their set plays, which one would expect. We'll get to see if Netherlands can outskill them because if there is a skill gap it's a relatively small one imo.

I do think Vivi's can take this but heck, it could go either way.